[E] Option to create more than 1 blank frame at a time

[Broocevelt]

You know those times you *ClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClickClick* the "Add" button to add a set of blank frames to write along instead of clicking the Add button over and over seperately? You don't? Well it doesn't matter, 'cause I do. And probably more people do.

Basically, what this is is a suggestion, either for the current V5 or the following V6. We could have a black arrow pointing down on the bottom-right corner of the "add" button, and if clicked, a field appears having to introduce a numerical value from 0 to whatever the editor's limitations are. And after hitting Enter or an OK button, the specified number of blank frames is created after the current frame.

It'd help a lot. Really. And I'm not sure if this has already been suggested.

[GanonZD]

Well, I've also noticed this problem, which is the major disadvantage of a non-script-based case maker like this. As to a its solution, I've come up with a slightly different idea: The "add frame" button at the bottom could be replaced by an extra, "inactive" frame, preferably distinguishable from the "real", "active" frames by having a slightly more grey (EDIT: or perhaps blue like the "add frame" buttons?) shade. Now when the user starts writing something in the text area of this frame or makes other changes, this frame will be turned into an active frame, and a new "inactive" frame will be added below it. Thus by "always having one more frame", you only have to click once instead of twice every time you want to write some new dialogue. Just an idea, not exactly something I've tested myself, but I think it would work out intuitively.

[Broocevelt]

The problem would be if you went back and wanted to add a single frame between other finished frames. A new frame would appear after that one and the user would have to delete it. And there wouldn't be any precise way to tell when the author is "done" with the frame

[GanonZD]

True, it wouldn't work between frames, nor should it; my thought was that this "inactive frame" only occurred at the bottom of the storyboard; and of course, the classical "add frame" buttons would stay there for adding frames wherever you like as well. I'm not sure if there's a way to reduce the time required to add frames between finished frames, but then again, that's the less time-consuming part of creating a trial, wouldn't you agree?

But speaking of reducing editing time, I have more thoughts: I haven't done statistics on it, but I'd say that whenever a user adds a new frame, there's something like 75 % chance that this new frame will be filled out with speech by the very same character who spoke in the last frame. So why not make this standard when adding a new frame? Sure, this will lead to errors when users forget to change who's talking, but then again, such errors also occur in the current system, right?

Actually, this discussion--user friendliness vs. speech--is more fundamental, and I think some parts of the editor have to be reconsidered. I think a way to solve many problems would be to introduce alternatives to the the editor and leave the choice to the user. One way to do this is to allow the user to edit the raw file data; this makes it easier to make third party editing systems like Jean Of mArc's Text2Case, but which convert text to file; furthermore, this allows many other actions not currently possible, like copying trials or moving multiple frames easily and quickly. Another solution could be to make a first-party Text2Case-like system in the editor.

I don't want AAO to be turned into a script-based case maker like most others; its user friendliness is one of its core features. I only want there to be simple, easy-to-implement alternatives that people can use if they want to or just ignore.

[Phantom]

Nah, I like Dan's idea better because of the precision/control the user can dictate of his idea as compared to yours.

I also don't want a Text2Case-like system in the editor, as it would bloat the editor for no reason, keep it as a GUI no one can be intimidated by only (besides, your discussion about the editor in general should be in a new thread where we can talk about it more Ganon )

You know though, the thing about frame-adding should be done as a macro instead. Press a button and the editor adds X amount of blank frames that you specified in the editor. Problem solved.


Even better, allow the option, when creating a new trial part, for the user to specify how many frames the editor should have by default, so users can worry about adding more frames later.

Example:
"You're creating a new trial right now, would you like to preload a certain amount of blank frames?
Yes or No?
If yes, how many frames would you like to be preloaded?
Yes: Ok, when you access the Storyboard, X amount of frames will be there, have fun!
No: Ok, no frames will be preloaded, you'll have to add them yourself by macro, or manual-clicking . Have fun!"

Boom covered all bases.

[Unas]

Actually, this discussion--user friendliness vs. speech--is more fundamental, and I think some parts of the editor have to be reconsidered. I think a way to solve many problems would be to introduce alternatives to the the editor and leave the choice to the user. One way to do this is to allow the user to edit the raw file data; this makes it easier to make third party editing systems like Jean Of mArc's Text2Case, but which convert text to file; furthermore, this allows many other actions not currently possible, like copying trials or moving multiple frames easily and quickly. Another solution could be to make a first-party Text2Case-like system in the editor.

I don't want AAO to be turned into a script-based case maker like most others; its user friendliness is one of its core features. I only want there to be simple, easy-to-implement alternatives that people can use if they want to or just ignore.

Actually, I agree with all this.
And AAO has been designed as two distinct apps (the player and the editor) from the beginning, so that the "editor" layer can be changed independantly of the player.
The problem is that up to V5, the trial data format was a complete mess, so I restricted the ability of normal users to edit the raw data because they were likely to mess up everything. (People like Jean, who knew what they were doing, could still do as they wanted though).
The V6 trial data format is much cleaner and easier to edit than the V5 one, so it should be way easier for people to manipulate this raw data - and people like Jean who wish to create their own editing system should find it much simpler.


Anyway, onto the original question :

I don't really see the point of a button to "add x frames".
As I see it, you add a frame, then fill it. Only afterwards should you add the next one. If that takes too much time, then it's my job to make it faster, but "adding n frames then filling all of them" is not a very intuitive behaviour, and it doesn't really have it's place in an interface that I want as intuitive as possible.

My idea in that case would rather be to enable some keyboard shortcuts.
For example, you could imagine a scenario like the following :

• I create a frame and set the audio, pictures and speaker for it.
• I type the text of the frame. When done, I hit the "End" key on the keyboard
• The editor creates a new frame after the current one (which may inherit some properties, like speaking character and such, as Ganon suggested), and the text input for this frame is immediately focused.
• I start typing the text of the new frame right away

This is only my first idea and it may need polishing (this won't be included in V6.0, by the way ) , but the point is : keyboard shortcuts, if well thought out, can enable you to go much faster, without bloating the interface by adding fields everywhere that can scare people off

[Broocevelt]

I'd say you scrap the conservation of properties such as the character speaking and etc...
Just because it won't necessarily be the previous character speaking, and that is not intuitive either xP

[GanonZD]

Not necessarily, but it's quite likely.

[Broocevelt]

I still think we shouldn't allow the editor to make assumptions, if there is a possibility that it's going to be wrong and will make it take more time for the user, it isn't really intuitive.

[Kroki]

Cloning a frame would solve this. U_U

[Broocevelt]

What's it even got to do with the matter at hand though?

[GanonZD]

I still think we shouldn't allow the editor to make assumptions, if there is a possibility that it's going to be wrong and will make it take more time for the user, it isn't really intuitive.

How can we avoid making assumptions? As it is now, the editor kind of "assumes" that when you make a new frame, what you want is a text frame with text and no name on top, because that's what is "standard" at the moment, despite being rarely used at all. And since the vast majority of text frames have the same speaker as the one before it, the editor merely does you a favour by making such assumptions. Sure, it cannot know for sure, but that assumption is as good as any, if not even better, since it will lead to less corrections than the current system and less time wasted on editing. But sure, I understand your concern, and following Unas' idea, what about... multiple shortcuts? One creates a new, totally empty frame, while another creates one where the same character is speaking. That would really reduce writing times, I think. And what about custom shortcuts? If I'm gonna use Maya a lot, I could maybe assign Ctrl + M to her, meaning that whenever I press those buttons, I get a new frame with Maya speaking. And those shortcuts should probably work not only at the bottom of the storyboard, but anywhere in it, so that the new frame will always be added right below the one currently being edited.

[Unas]

what about... multiple shortcuts?

Sure, that's part of my idea as well - if I'm going to implement keyboard shortcuts, it would be a waste to use it only once
Something like :
- One shortcut to insert a new frame that only inherits speaking character (simplest key combination, since I believe this would be the most useful one)
- One shortcut to clone the current frame (as Kroki suggested)
- One to insert a completely blank frame, etc.

But I don't want to add too many shortcuts either, to avoid too much complexity, so we should pick some really relevant ones.

And what about custom shortcuts? If I'm gonna use Maya a lot, I could maybe assign Ctrl + M to her, meaning that whenever I press those buttons, I get a new frame with Maya speaking.

I understand the idea, but I feel it would be an overkill to add an interface to set custom shortcuts.
But if I ever come to adding the macro system that has been suggested many times in the past (the ability to prepare a sequence of frames once, and insert it as many times as desired in the storyboard), I guess I could link each macro to a keyboard shortcut, like ctrl+1 for the first macro, etc...

[GanonZD]

But if I ever come to adding the macro system that has been suggested many times in the past (the ability to prepare a sequence of frames once, and insert it as many times as desired in the storyboard), I guess I could link each macro to a keyboard shortcut, like ctrl+1 for the first macro, etc...

The problem of macros is another thing that is automatically solved once the average user is allowed to edit the source code and copy-paste whatever they like over and over again.