[T] Age of Turnabouts ☆

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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par Arivenzys » Dim Mai 20, 2018 11:52 pm

Hello CorruptedFlame,

I just checked both plans, and they seems to work fine for me. However, it's strange that you got the Lilie's plan during part 2, as it appear only during the third part.
Could you please send me a screen of the bug ? Thank you !
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par CorruptedFlame » Lun Mai 21, 2018 1:23 am

Spoiler : :
No I had gotten that during Part 3, I thought since part 2 was unfinishable for me, I'd skip over them.

Any which ways, I replayed it again, and it seems to be working fine, so I'm assuming it's an issue with my computer.

So, so, so sorry to have bothered you about this, I thought it was an actual bug and the case seemed quite promising so I didn't want to let it get side tracked :?
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par Arivenzys » Lun Mai 21, 2018 3:11 pm

Ah I see, but don't worry it's fine ^^

And thanks for playing the trial anyway :)
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par CorruptedFlame » Mer Mai 23, 2018 2:20 am

Spoiler : Finishing Thoughts :
Well, I finished playing it and it was an overall enjoyable experience: contradictions weren't too hard, and Vladimir was an enjoyable character.

As a reader, I was kind of confused about the ending of part 4 because:

A. No verdict was given (I'm assuming because you wanted it to seem like a tie between the two parties, right?)

B. At the end, the villains kind of left me feeling... empty, I guess? I was expecting a bit more backstory on Eden than the breakdown infodump, honestly.

C. Otherwise, I think you should focus on building them up your characters a little bit more, like I'd have liked to know a bit more about Suntome and T.N.T.
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par Arivenzys » Ven Mai 25, 2018 1:16 am

Well thank you for your thoughts, I don't know if I'll translate other works for now, but I'll take note of this.
And I'm glad you enjoyed it !
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par CloudRed1988 » Ven Mai 25, 2018 3:28 am

Will there be more series?
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par Arivenzys » Ven Mai 25, 2018 2:30 pm

For now, I have a lot of projects going on, so it won't happen soon.
I have a non-translated trial, but the series it's supposed to start is actually on hiatus because of my work.
So time will tell...
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par Bad Player » Sam Oct 27, 2018 10:18 pm

Spoiler : QA :
Check 1 is... passed. While the story could probably use a bit more development of the story, but we have a prosecutor/attorney, a seemingly impossible crime, a second murder that's connected to the first, and it all ties thematically to the Dark Age of the Law, and it all comes together well enough.

For check 2, here's the frame-by-frame/stream of consciousness, with notes on each category afterwards:

Part 1:
278: Presenting the badge to Yuri in the detention center when you first meet him has a blank empty frame.
134: There are… way more spaces than there need to be.
769, 174: Silipee disappears in these frames
249: There are two “beeps” in a row. There should probably only be one.
237: Add the accent over the e.
287: The background isn’t set (so it still looks like the Wright Anything Agency)
Can you scale down the map so the entire graphic is visible at once? Since it’s supposed to be on the fifth floor, replacing the door at the top with a square for the elevator might also be good.

Part 2:
25: you --> your
1248: allows --> allows you
249: Is this supposed to still be in French? Lol
I think Tiara’s profile should have “weirdest” instead of “weirdness”?
339: Phoenix’s “shocked” animation loops when it shouldn’t. Also the bench disappeared for me.
Tiara Testimony 1: You should only be able to request adding each hidden statement once. Also, I’d strengthen the contradictory statement. The fact that someone could have been in the kitchen doesn’t contradict Tiara’s statement that she didn’t see someone, so I’d rephrase so that it is an actual “contradiction.”
413: Capitalize “honor”
515: all the --> the entire
Liaron’s profile: assisted to --> witnessed (at least, I think that’s what you meant to say…?)
Liaron Testimony 1: Maybe it’d make more sense to have Liaron say he saw the actual moment the body was thrown…? He says he heard glass breaking and then saw the body falling, so he assumed the corpse went through the window—that isn’t actually a lie. He could say he saw it, then be like “Oh, I got confused. I heard the glass break, and then saw the defendant open the window and throw the body through!” …He could also add that nothing else happened, just to make the second “contradiction” in the testimony stronger.
635: broke --> break
1498: talked --> talk
1001: Add a wait timer
…Why could Tiara have hid only in the office, and not in another room, like the Kitchen or Bathroom…? That isn’t really explained well.
1148: At this present, you have “HOLD IT!” instead of “TAKE THAT!”
1177: Stray apostrophe
1225: got --> had
1228: There’s a broken graphic here (the court overview image?)
1230: got --> get
1268: Was the body by the window? Or outside on the ground underneath the window? These are very different things!
Y’know… wasn’t the lock in the court record the lock to the door? So why does the evidence description say “cabinet”?

Part 3:
1038: No nametag
I think you might want “Stairway” or “Staircase” rather than “Stairwell”
Sizing down the Lilies Plan might be helpful as well…
476: could also hear --> also heard
953: come --> came
After meeting Leviath, you can still talk to Andrine as if you haven’t met Leviath yet.
After investigating the Small Lounge, talking to Ashley again allows you to return to the first Small Lounge instance (with Leviath)
651: Music should stop before the “TAKE THAT!” not after (applies to entire psyche-lock)
652: Delete “to”
839: passed --> spent
Try using a “shadowy figure” image for Eden.
985: informations --> information

Part 4:
48: accusation --> prosecution
Ashley testimony 1: After you point out the first contradiction, the testimony should be altered to reflect it
564: You need “TAKE THAT!”s generally throughout the segment.
592: I think this would work better if you added windows to the map, condensed the small lounges into one (or at some point specified which is the small lounge that you investigated), and/or also accepted the space in the garden right outside the small lounges.
614: Can’t argue he was threatened with the gun?
804: Add “TAKE THAT!”s generally
804: I would change this to a regular cross-examination that
Xavier testimony 2: As the statements are deleted, the “Then,” and “And finally” stop making sense.
1214: Add “TAKE THAT!”s

Presentation and bugs:
There were a few major graphic failures... but they were so major that I couldn't continue until they were fixed, so they were fixed mid-review and are all resolved now! Otherwise, presentation was basically fine, without any 3-liners or other rookie mistakes. As for bugs, however, there are a couple of exploitable loopholes in the investigations, especially Part 3. You need to pay careful attention to the flags and event triggers to make sure events can't be retriggered, or accessed to early or late. There was one more issue: on some timed frames, the game would wait wayyyy too long... but I couldn't find anything wrong when looking at the editor, so I suspect this has something to do with AAO and/or me. I don't think there's something for you to fix here, but... just noting it.

Characters & proofing:
Yeah, you can tell that this was made by someone whose first language isn't English... Still, not nearly as bad as it could be. I pointed out all the worst grammar and spelling errors I saw, but another thorough proofreading can't hurt. As for the writing itself, it was good! The characters had strong personality and a consistent voice, even including things like Andrine's constant puns and Leviath's rhetorical devices, despite this being a translated case. Some of the smaller characters (like Ashley) aren't quite as memorable, but there was also nice nuance (like the Liarons having similar speaking styles).

However, as I said in Check 1, it does feel like the case could use a bit more development... I think the best spots would be the beginning of Part 1, the beginning of Part 3, and the end of Part 4. A bit more frames to set the scene at the beginning of the investigations would help, but I don't think are strictly necessary. At the climax of Part 4 though, I think more development would go a looong way. Having a guilty client is a major deal for Phoenix, and regardless of his ideals, turning on that client (when they aren't physically threatening him) should be a huge, major decision... but instead we just brush through it.

Graphics:
They were all good enough (except for the major failures that you corrected). The backgrounds were high-quality VN bgs, the custom evidence was good, and the custom sprite sets were all decent quality. The two changes I'd make (listed above) are scaling down the maps and giving Eden a "shadowy figure" image. The only other issue was the desks disappearing... but this happened at the same time as the extra-long wait timers, so I suspect the problem is on AAO's/my side.

Sounds:
Music and sound effects were used consistently and appropriately. Nothing really noteworthy positively or negatively, but you just need sound to set the background mood, so that's fine. Only thing was lots of missing "TAKE THAT!"s.

Case logic:
Overall, pretty good. We had some complex crimes, but they were boiled down into relatively simple cases... but that's totally fine. The theory development segments were interesting, and also a nice take on thought routing. The feedback it gave the player afterwards was also pretty good. Besides a couple of small issues I noticed above, the biggest disconnect I thought was near the end of Part 4. Phoenix proving how the crime could work with an accomplice just doesn't translate to Xavier having to be that accomplice. If you could tighten that connection, it'd help a ton.

Spoiler : boop :
★ The case is good enough to be featured. Please make the requested changes.
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ●●●● 

Message par Arivenzys » Lun Oct 29, 2018 5:53 pm

Hello ! Thank you for your time and again sorry for the strange and less strange bugs that occurred during your review.

I corrected the majority of the problems you found (the thing with the long waits were due to other broken images which bugged other frames for some reason). I also smoothed the cross-examinations you noted as well as the end of part 4. I hope it's now clearer and without other errors ^^

The only thing where I'm not sure is about the "Take That !" : it's during a theory development and I feel like they are a little off given the context, because the player is supposed to find and remember the good point he raised. So a Take That would clearly tell them they chose right without a doubt (but maybe it's precisely why you say there should be those feedbacks). Anyway, should I put them at every good answer or only when presenting a good evidence ?
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ☆ 

Message par Bad Player » Mar Oct 30, 2018 2:54 am

"TAKE THAT!"s should go whenever you present evidence, wrong or right. If you really think they feel weird in the theory development sections, maybe you can just put them for the last present to act like a capstone of sorts?
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ☆ 

Message par Arivenzys » Mar Oct 30, 2018 4:28 pm

Alright, that's changed now. It should be alright !
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ☆ 

Message par MrCarri » Dim Nov 04, 2018 3:33 pm

I've found a problem during case 2.

Spoiler : :
While the first cross examination the walktrhough says:
Holgerson's Cross-examination : Press the third statement, and ask for other noises.
Present the walkman to the discovered statement.

Problem is that I've pressed all, asked for the option "other noises" and still don't get the discovered statement. After Holgerson's response, phoenix says "Allright, you can continue" but nothing changes. (As I understand, it should appear a new statement, where I can present the walkman for the scream.


Don't know if I'm not doing it right or it's a bug, but I have been trying and can't continue :)
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ☆ 

Message par Salamence » Lun Nov 05, 2018 8:07 am

MrCarri a écrit :I've found a problem during case 2.

Spoiler : :
While the first cross examination the walktrhough says:
Holgerson's Cross-examination : Press the third statement, and ask for other noises.
Present the walkman to the discovered statement.

Problem is that I've pressed all, asked for the option "other noises" and still don't get the discovered statement. After Holgerson's response, phoenix says "Allright, you can continue" but nothing changes. (As I understand, it should appear a new statement, where I can present the walkman for the scream.


Don't know if I'm not doing it right or it's a bug, but I have been trying and can't continue :)



I'm having the exact same problem...
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ☆ 

Message par Arivenzys » Mar Nov 06, 2018 12:24 pm

Ah sorry, it seems I forgot a message during my corrections at that point. I corrected it, thanks for notifying me ^^
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Re: [T] Age of Turnabouts ☆ 

Message par MrCarri » Mar Nov 06, 2018 5:08 pm

Arivenzys a écrit :Ah sorry, it seems I forgot a message during my corrections at that point. I corrected it, thanks for notifying me ^^


Hey thanks for the fast fix, I'll tell you if I find something more ^^

Edit, ok, Finished ^^ my thoughts:

Spoiler : :
I'm not an expert reviewing cases (heck, I'm a newbie to the forum and already want more fancases), I will talk about whate I've liked, and where I could improve it:

I've loved the case. Everything makes sense, the story is enjoyable and I've been interested until the end, mainly because it fit post Dual destinies really good (Justice recovering) . In fact, one of the strongest points is Vladimir. As a character, he really wants to seek the truth. Reminded me to Edgey a little bit, which is always good. The theory discussion fit the theme too, and as a game mechanic, makes the case stronger. Mainly because encourages to really think what happened, and is great to introduce new theories, for example the failed abduction. Liked that a lot. As a prosecutor, was very well done with the duality he represented, I think its a very notable innovation.

A think I missed was a bit of character development in the first trial: Maybe the bouncer and the true culprit could improve, the first one, seems like a good character material for more cross-examinations or to help the delopment of the other characters the true culprit or the old man. Don't know. In the case of the culprit, it was very fast. One second testifying with a good breakdown (pyrotechnics) and then it's gone. I don't think the pace was the problem, but maybe a little bit of background to emphatise better could be good.

I've got a question there, why she was so sure about the evilness of Yuri? I mean, it seemed to like she was convinced he was truly super evil (he was, ofc), like Andrew and had to frame him no matter. Maybe it's just me that I got that wrong.


As for the rest of characters, I liked ashley, the detail of wearing the jacket on in court is a nice touch. I Loved Andrine, one of the best new characters in the cast, with exception of Vladimir, reminded me a lot of myself because we have the same sense of humour and the goodman sprite was very cool to see. Regarding Yuri, I would have loved more background too because the character had potential, specially with the evil eyed looks.That caught me totally by surprise, didn't think I was getting a evil defendant this time.

As for the art, I was surprised of having a lot of new characters, and the sprites were well finished with a lot of work behind and the breakdowns were well done (When it comes to games, I'm more of the programmer and the storywriter than the artist, so for me they work super good). Music nice too, well chosen and fitting.

Going back to the first trial in detail, I loved the plot because it just at the start it remind me to one episode of detective Conan I watched when I was a kid ( I think, maybe im totally wrong) that there was a body hanging out with a tablecloth or something similar, and when the window was opened, the body would fall, so everything ended in a nice coincidence in my mind, and got me engaged since the beginning.

Another Idea that was good, police reports. God thank you took the time to write them and make the maps as clear as possible. Took a break between the last trial, and when I came back, I wasn't asking myself what happened exactly (usually take notes while playing).

One little thing that might be a mistranslation:

During Vladimir Theory in the second trial noticed something that sounded weird to me. There's one statement ( the third or the fourth) that was "Once dawnstairs killed the defendant with the pistol", should't be "victim" instead? (I'm not native english either but sound weird)

As a TLDR, loved your case, It was nice of you bring us a translation, I imagine the original has more puns, and things that might be lost in translation, but hey, I would replay the case in the future if I'm need of a good case and I can't find one that haven't played. I spent today's afternoon and night, and was a well spent time, had a lot of fun, and It has helped me a lot in the future if I want to write my own case one day, so thank you :) ( and sorry if I made spelling mistakes)
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