[M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:32 pm

Spoiler : :
Okay. I'm dropping the de Killer part for now. But I stand by the theory that Alfred is the accomplice. Might I remind you that just because he's a butler, doesn't mean he was Larry's butler. Keep in mind, we never saw a point in which Larry acknowledged Alfred as his butler. Therefore, Alfred is actually the culprit's butler.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby smkramer313 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:40 am

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Intriguing possibility (again, can't say that I didn't already think of it beforehand)...I'm curious to see what theory you come up with where my piece is working with the culprit.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:54 am

Spoiler : :
Seeing as there are no objections to that, here's my full theory. Larry and Franziska were working together on the corrupt prosecutor case but Phoenix was indeed involved. He's the culprit. Alfred is actually his own butler. Or at the very least, his helper. The plan was to lure Larry and Franziska to separate rooms and kill them. First, he had Alfred go alone to the hallway during the search for Franziska and pretend to be dead for the group in the first bathroom. Keep in mind, we never saw Payne go to the hallway. We don't know how long it took him to get there. Also, Phoenix was alone for quite some time. He had the best opportunity to help Alfred fake the deaths and get to both bathrooms to kill Larry and Franziska.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby smkramer313 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:31 am

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Okay, but how did Phoenix get Larry and Franziska to open up their bathroom doors? Keep in mind that Phoenix had to get them to do so in order to successfully complete his crime with Alfred. Also, you still haven't accounted for Franziska's disappearing act from the study. How exactly did Phoenix and Alfred accomplish this together, if the two did so at all?
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:42 am

Spoiler : :
I'm guessing Phoenix told them that he had information about the corrupt prosecutor case. As for the study room disappearance, my guess is that she threw a glass to cause a diversion. Then, she quickly left the study, likely going to the wine cellar. Phoenix either faked being passed out drunk or pretended he didn't notice. Killing Franziska there would've cast too much suspicion on him. After Franziska left the wine cellar, she looped around back to the right side bathroom. Phoenix, meanwhile, got up and locked the door to the wine cellar.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby smkramer313 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 am

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Recall what Alfred said in the study with Payne after the shattered glass came from within:
And both the doors leading to the wine cellar and the dining room are locked!
If Franziska did exit to the wine cellar, then she would need to procure the wine cellar key Phoenix had in order to lock the wine cellar. Hence, she would need to be an accomplice of Phoenix and not Alfred (unless you can somehow prove otherwise).
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:10 am

Spoiler : :
Thing is, the red truth only applied to the doors at the time. The wine cellar door was unlocked at the start. Then, shortly before Alfred made the red truth, Phoenix locked the door again.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby smkramer313 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:23 pm

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Hmm...you have done very well in placing the blame on Alfred, but I'm afraid I have to be the bearer of some bad news. You are looking at the wrong side of the chessboard.
Phoenix did not lock the door to the wine cellar when Payne and Alfred entered the study.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:45 pm

Edited:
Spoiler : :
Phoenix pretended to be unconscious and Franziska took the key off of him to lock the door.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby astand » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:29 pm

Spoiler : :
Interesting.

I'll disregard letters, shards etc and keep it simple for now.

The name of the butler was never confirmed in red. So if his name is not "Alfred", he can definitely be the culprit. (I'll still refer to him as Alfred for simplicity)
What happened (after the moment Franziska got locked in the study):
Larry entered the dining room, knocked out Edgeworth, took the dining room key and opened the door to study. Franziska got out and ran to right bathroom, where she locked herself up.
Larry threw a bottle into study room (which shattered) and locked the door right away. After that Payne and Alfred entered the study to discover that Franziska is gone. Larry at the same time carries unconsious Edgeworth to the library (or he moved him beforehand, before he opened the study).
If the locked room that needs to be solved refers to the study, from which Franziska disappeared, that's the solution. Larry would be considered an accomplice in that case, and nothing rules out that he was cooperating at some plan with Alfred at the time (and killer knew about Larry's plans according to the note)
While Payne goes to library and encounters Larry there, Alfred enters left hallway and sees Klavier leaving file room, knocks him out, barricades the room with pre-prepared barricade and returns to central hallway to see Larry go to the left hallway. Larry then proceeds to enter the left bathroom and locks himself there. Alfred sees Payne enter the central hallway as well.
Alfred knocks Payne out after he removes the barricade. He then speaks to Larry through the door and convinces him to open it, after which Larry is stabbed. Alfred takes dining room key from Larry's body and plants stuff from Payne to Larry (pills and the note). He also takes wine cellar key from Phoenix, who was asleep (probably due to pills mixed with grape juice beforehand), and replaces it with dining room key.
As hallway is empty, he goes without trouble to right bathroom, makes Franziska open the door and stabs her as well. He plants the wine cellar key onto Edgeworth (for some reason).
After that he transported Payne to the study, he must have done it after the corpses were discovered (according to red truth), but it doesn't seem to matter much when exactly that happened or who made the discovery (as there is not much testimony for what occured after Phonix/Edgeworth woke up or after Klavier got released).
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby smkramer313 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:23 pm

Spoiler : DJJ6800 and astand :
Sorry for taking a while to respond to you two. But for your reference: Alfred is not the accomplice
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:07 pm

Spoiler : :
*insert surprised reaction sprite here* Well then. This complicated things. Since Alfred can’t be the accomplice, that means the first incident narrows things down quite a bit. Since Phoenix, Franziska and Edgeworth were with us at the time, it couldn’t be them pretending to be Larry. Gavin couldn’t be the accomplice since he’s trapped in the file room. And since Alfred isn’t the accomplice, that means the only one that body could belong to is Larry. After all, it wasn’t a dummy or anything like that. And yet he appeared later in the story. So how is this the case? I have a new theory. The first incident was an attempted murder. Enough to make him temporarily dead. However, CPR was applied and he cane back to life.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby smkramer313 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:54 pm

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Larry wasn't actually killed on the right side bathroom of the manor.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby DJJ6800 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:01 pm

Spoiler : :
Then he was killed in the left side bathroom, brought to the right side bathroom by the killer and then was revived there.
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Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak 

Postby astand » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:01 am

Spoiler : :
But he is the culprit in my theory, and not an accomplice...
And his name is not confirmed to be Alfred, so I can make a claim that no red truth about Alfred actually apply to the butler character present in the game.
Unless you can confirm that in red.
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