NihilisticNinja a écrit :Cerberus Alpha a écrit :Spoiler : :Erm, it's not just "something feels off", everyone was caught lying and covering for each other several times during the trial, not to mention Gavin's all too conveniently showing up as a surprise witness in a case that was supposedly kept under wraps from the public eye. Maya telling Gavin to shut up at a certain point is a blatant admission of guilt on their part, yet everyone ignores everything that happened before when Ares enters the room ranting about the Leviathan, and Apollo simply abandons the case and runs away in anger.
Oh, it's just that you mentioned culprits and Apollo being basically right about the solution so I figured you thought I was saying that Apollo's logic about the suicide case was a load of crap, when I was actually referring to the BS he fed Ares in the end. No need to get into detail about how their lies are different, I understand why they did what they did, but still they fixed it with yet another deception that has the potential to backfire horribly should Ares take a look at the case again on whim... it kinda surprised me how quickly Ares gave up considering his obsession with the Leviathan.
Hmmm, perhaps our different POVs about this stem from the fact that you actually saw a conclusion for the trial, whereas I did not, so you actually got closure, even if unsatisfying, while I had to keep wondering what happened. Maybe if I'd seen the scene I'd arrive at the same conclusion as pretty much everyone else that saw it did, so I guess I'll take you guys' word for it, but still making it a reward for solving the optional CE couldn't hurt right?Spoiler : :Well, I feel like on some level that conclusion is certainly easy to reach, but I'm not positive how much of it has to do with "they were the killers by basic logic", and how much of it has to do with "they conformed to the kinds of tropes that we're all used to, so we naturally concluded that they were the killers."
For instance, all their lies. It's worth noting that it's a very high pressure situation being on the witness stand, especially when your every word is being scrutinized by a defense attorney determined to poke any holes into your story as possible. Aside from Phoenix, these people aren't going to have that much experience with that sort of thing, so it would be easy to screw up and make mistakes, or forget events. And even in Phoenix's case, the human mind basically has a natural tendency to err.
There's a reason witness testimony is considered one of the least reliable forms of evidence in an actual court of law- this may be slightly balanced out by having the trial immediately afterward, but it's still pretty easy to make mistakes based on preconceptions of what you think occurred rather than what you know occurred, simply misspeak or improperly word things out of stress, or forget details for that exact same reason. To us, the whole "Oh hey, I forgot X" may seem really sketchy, because it's a work of fiction and things like that typically don't have such a simplistic answer. But, really? It's honestly completely possible that, yes, he did just forget X. People screw up and make mistakes, and that doesn't mean that they're the killer every single time. That's a rule of mystery fiction, and not a rule of reality.
And to us, the whole "Shut up Kristoph" thing sounds really damning, as does Maya's taunting to Apollo earlier. But I'm not convinced that those things can't be explained. After all, at that point anybody would get frustrated- holes were continually being poked in their story, and if they were innocent, those holes wouldn't exist because of failing to probably plan out their lies, they would have been in there simply due to basic mistakes in recollection and similar errors. That is really frustrating, and the idea that you might have to go to jail because of honest mistakes would definitely cause enough stress, fear, and frustration that people could say things that they don't really mean. If one of you is continually making mistakes and screwing things up, even if they don't mean to, it's natural to just want them to... stop talking.
And the taunting is even simpler to explain- it could be Maya putting on some false bravado because she honestly does find getting accused to be scary, but really doesn't want to show that fear to a defense attorney so that it can be exploited. So she uses the knowledge that she is innocent, and basically says "I wouldn't do that if I were you", perhaps also as a way to get him to stop pressuring her, so that she doesn't even have to risk going to prison for a crime she didn't commit.
Now, you could argue that these are stretches in logic based on psycho-analysis. I would respond that the issue is that the other side is already doing that, because the entire conclusion that most of them are in on it and yet threw together this contrived scheme could only be the result of "They did it unnecessarily to throw us all off their trail!" And that is also a logical stretch that is also based on psycho-analysis of people that we barely even know. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
In terms of the ending, you could very well have a point. I certainly can't say with authority that you are wrong, and I can't know for sure what my reaction would be playing it blind now myself. Especially since, as I said in my first response, I am typically not a fan of ambiguous endings. I don't think it would certainly do any harm to have it as an optional bonus, I just completely understand why it was cut.
Also, Kristoph making mistakes doesn't really gives Maya the right to try and shut him up, it only makes them look incredibly more suspicious, and considering she is quite sharp in this trial that excuse doesn't fly. I'm not sure why you are justifying Maya's taunting, I never mentioned it in any of my posts...