Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projects

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GanonZD
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Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projects

Post by GanonZD »

This forum is flooded with short forum posts saying something like "I am working on a trial in which Oldbag meets Lotta in court. More details later." Perhaps there is also a logo and two screenshots. And that was about all we ever heard from that case.

It is great that you possess creativity enough to produce ideas. It is even better that you start trying to make them become a reality. This website is meant as a tool to live out your passions, to give your inner artist the space it deserves. There are few things in this world I respect more than people following their ideas, their fantasies. For goodness' sake, believe in yourself, and believe that you have something to share with the world.

However, during the creative process, your ideas are just not very interesting to the rest of us unless there is a clear indication that this trial is ever going to happen. If you actually have something to present, then perhaps; it could be a significant collection of well-made artwork (other than some simple AA-style silhouette logo that you quickly made in PhotoShop), beautifully drawn custom sprites, perhaps even trailers of non-trivial length and content. Or you might have very concrete requests for collabs or other kinds of help. But even so, forum threads are for discussion, and unless your prototype art is extraordinarily inspiring, there is just not much to discuss for the rest of us.

I have not tried to do any statistics about this, but I think that if we start looking through the threads, the vast majority of these planned cases never see the light of day. That is perfectly understandable, because people's motivation for free-time projects tends to vary quite drastically. It takes an exceptional effort to find the time to actually make the long and extremely polished cases that make up our featured collection. Those who can do that deserve our utmost respect. I myself am certainly not one of them; I have had many ideas, but few of them ever came any further than my fantasy, and not a single one ever became a working trial. And sorry to say this, but statistically speaking, the same is most likely true for you. So in your creative process, think very carefully for a long time about whether there is enough content at this stage to share it with the world. Thank you for your patience. I tried not to sound too mean.
Last edited by GanonZD on Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by E.D.Revolution »

I believe I have discussed this issue, thought not at length. Generally, you really want to wait until about 66% of your case is finished before you start to think about posting topics. Why is that? Well, that shows the audience that you ARE working on a project and you're nearly there.

Therefore, it is not enough to have an idea of a case. You MUST have some work done with concrete evidence that you are working, such as screenshots or trailers. A logo and a silhouette is not enough to garner interest. If your description of your game is short, it's not enough to garner interest. That is why I have said more than once that you need to take time to do the work. And if you're at the stage where you have enough work done and want to post a topic, put EFFORT into the post itself. Sure, give a monkey GIMP and teach him how to make a logo, and he'll make one. You need to give us more than a logo. A logo and nothing else doesn't give us much material to discuss. Give us more than a bare idea of your trial. Give us a basic idea of the trial.

Using Ganon's example (and making the example even more generic...):
This is a bare summary wrote:I am working on a trial in which Oldbag meets Lotta in court. More details later.
VS
This is a basic summary wrote:In this trial, you are playing as X lawyer, who has to defend Lotta in court. What has Lotta been accused of? Murder. (What else?) Only this is a very weird murder case. What makes this case even weirder is the appearance of a certain old lady who is obsessed with Edgeworth. Can X unravel the case and find out the truth of the matter? Can X secure a Not Guilty verdict for Lotta?
Read more about this here. (Scroll down to "Preparing the Trial Thread")

Another thing. Don't tell us you're working on your project. Prove to us you're working on it. Screenshots of dialogue, at the very least, or a short trailer (even better). Show, not tell.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by Enthalpy »

Moved to Help and Support.

With very few exceptions, Your Trials is exclusively for trial showcases. General Fancase Discussion got locked for not meeting those criteria. I'd rather keep trial topics out of General Discussion, and this topic is not tutorial quality, so moved to Help and Support by default.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by GanonZD »

The reason I put it into the trials forum was in order for first-time authors to notice it. I don't think they will find it here.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by enigma »

Find and discuss trials made by other members and showcase your own trials.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by Unas »

I've moved the topic back to Your Trials as a sticky : it contains valuable advice for members about to post their showcase, I think it makes sense here :-)
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by GanonZD »

@Unas: Thank you for helping my message spread. :-)
E.D.Revolution wrote:I believe I have discussed this issue, thought not at length. Generally, you really want to wait until about 66% of your case is finished before you start to think about posting topics. Why is that? Well, that shows the audience that you ARE working on a project and you're nearly there.
Totally agreed. I think another golden rule is that you don't post anything unless you can present a significant part of the project already. So at least one --- and preferably more --- chapters should already be playable. That proves that this is a serious project. Posting about something you want to do is like having a blot about travelling where you post about places you would like to go.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by Evo »

There's a reason that in the German sections all trial showcases must contain at least one playable part. Of course, it's not bad to have a thread with just a trailer and screenshots to create hype for your case until the first part is released after a few weeks or so. But announcing the project at the very beginning has a high risk that the thread will be empty (nothing playable there, I mean) forever.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by GanonZD »

Any particular reason why we don't have a similar rule in the English section? It is a major issue on this forum IMO.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by Phantom »

You might as well sticky ED's comprehensive first-time author guide here too. This has been covered by that guide for years now.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by cesar26100 »

Such a rule would be really helpful,in my opinion.If someone wants help with their project,there is already a thread for that,so adding that rule would help writers make sure they can at least show us they've put some effort in their trial before showcasing it.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by E.D.Revolution »

I don't know if I want that to be a "hard" rule, as opposed to a "soft" rule. The rules abut requesting help is more of a "soft" rule. Meaning, it's there, but it's not official.

If you want this to be a hard rule, then answer this: Why is the fact that there are many "empty" topics an issue in the first place? In fact, there aren't a flood of these happening. There aren't that many topics like this within in the last three months. So, is it really an issue? Or is it perceived to be an issue?
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by GanonZD »

E.D.Revolution wrote:If you want this to be a hard rule, then answer this: Why is the fact that there are many "empty" topics an issue in the first place? In fact, there aren't a flood of these happening. There aren't that many topics like this within in the last three months. So, is it really an issue? Or is it perceived to be an issue?
No, it's rather the attitude of it that kinda annoys me. I just got some random idea for a trial, and the first thing I do is share it with the world --- only to realise soon after that my idea did not have enough contents. Then that thread is nothing but useless waste.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by Sleuth »

GanonZD wrote:
E.D.Revolution wrote:If you want this to be a hard rule, then answer this: Why is the fact that there are many "empty" topics an issue in the first place? In fact, there aren't a flood of these happening. There aren't that many topics like this within in the last three months. So, is it really an issue? Or is it perceived to be an issue?
No, it's rather the attitude of it that kinda annoys me. I just got some random idea for a trial, and the first thing I do is share it with the world --- only to realise soon after that my idea did not have enough contents. Then that thread is nothing but useless waste.
I believe ED's point is "why is having so many wasted threads a problem that warrants a rule"? As it stands there's already plenty of unrealized threads currently that doesn't really affect anything beyond being there and forgotten. It's rather disheartening to see that many unrealized cases but at the same time it's not like their existence is overwhelming the forums.

That said, I'm in full support of this being a soft rule. I made this mistake about... say, three times in the past? It's more harmful to the creator than to the community, IMO.
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Re: Encouragement: Think twice before posting planned projec

Post by kwando1313 »

Much agreed with it being a soft rule.

With it being a hard rule, you're being much too heavy handed and... Have you looked at the state of trial threads recently? If anything, we need more activity and encouragement of people to make trials. If you make it a hard rule, you're potentially scaring people who would make trials away, for... Well, no reason whatsoever.

In addition, someone having an idea, but needing help... That kind of gets shafted in a hard rule situation. Yes, there is a case assistance request thread, but basically stating your entire idea there and asking for help seems kind of difficult and against the grain of the intention of that thread.

So basically, I think it'd be a terrible idea to make it a hard rule.
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