The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by Aeliren »

Partway through the appeal section now, and I have to say it's quite awesome!
Spoiler : Marrascaud :
I actually started having some suspicions on who Marrascaud really was about halfway through the first trial when I re-read the challenge. I then realized that:
1) Whoever it was, they had access to some decent tech and gadgets. Couldn't be the phantom, he was still Bobby Fulbright at that time.
2) They never hurt anyone, so they're likely a good person at heart.
3) These heists are practically impossible. You could almost say that it was... magic.
4) Yatagaratsu. Doesn't need to be a one-man job, especially when each person in on it has something different to offer.
5) Profile images are always there for a reason, whether foreshadowing or otherwise.

Turns out I was right about it.
Spoiler : Phantom :
The phantom is unsettling. Mere days ago he was still masquerading as Bobby Fullbright, and now you're speaking to him in a solitary cell. You're left alone with a killer still wearing his messy disguise, his jacket all unbuttoned. And you can't see his face. You know that there's something in there is staring at you, but you can't see it. His every move feels like he'll just lunge out at you.

And it's such a complete change from his "Bobby Fulbright" personality. And yet, he never had his little epiphany from Dual Destinies here. He doesn't care that he doesn't feel anything, that he doesn't have an identity. Kristoph is less scary because he felt emotions - fear, anger, hatred. He was evil, but he was human. This guy feels nothing.

Though I'll admit I was amused when he said he thought that his arrest was anti-climactic. When compared to his canon arrest, a master spy and assassin being caught while watching TV in his home is rather hilarious.
Spoiler : Fifteen Years Ago :
Grossberg as an attorney was actually pretty awesome. One piece of evidence and he never needed to press anything. Oh, and TASTE THE BUNS OF JUSTICE!
I'm not finished yet though I can hardly wait, but I can tell that you've done an excellent job!

EDIT: Finished the case! The conclusion actually caught me off guard, but I enjoyed it.
nikekut456 wrote:Oh right I'd already finished this a long time ago but forgot to ask this obvious question (thought the others will also have the same guess as mine)
Spoiler : :
Why did the phantom still stay in the police force in those 2 years? In DD's events, he'd already finished his business with the Moon Rock. So I still want to ask: why is he still in the police force? Why not just leave?
Spoiler : My theory :
Bobby Fulbright was the detective who was in charge of Simon Blackquill, and was the one in charge of the case against Solomon and the evidence involved. If he suddenly disappeared the day after the man he tried redeeming so much was executed, especially one obsessed with justice in these dark times, it would've looked rather strange, enough to maybe look into the matter. And if there's something we can be sure the Phantom does not want, it's people looking into him or his organization.

Besides, maybe his organization could've benefited from having a mole in the LA police department. Why waste time getting another agent to infiltrate under a fake identity when you already have one who has a "real" identity?
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by drvonkitty »

so I got home from a trip today and thought to myself "gee it would be fun to play one of those new dwam trials". 8 hours later i end up finishing my SoC in the most rambly, sad manner possible at 12:30 in the morning. enjoy.
Spoiler : SoC, spoilers duh :
wow the presentation here is really good
also i'm liking this premise a lot
"This might turn into be the most
bizarre mess he's ever gotten
himself involved in."
typo, remove the word "be" or reword
"November 25
Jupiter Estate
anyone reason why this isn't centered?
the fact that apollo isn't in the profiles concernes me, this does not bode well for apollo
should this be capitalized? also could do with a shake
"Even if, no matter how many
times you do it, it ends up sounding ridiculous just as crazy as before..."
for some reason i feel like phoenix is this thief man, i don't know why. could be apollo??? idk i feel like we know this person
in the newspaper:
" I shall, of course, take percautions of my own"
should be PREcautions
"Marrascaud has been determined to be either a single individual or a group"
i thought phoenix said that he was determined to be an indvidual?
okay this kyle jupiter guy is creeping me out just a tad
"Hot DAMN you are scary-looking!"
widget reading both mine and athena's thoughts
also isn't widget's text yellow?
phoenix, despite going to art school, does not seem to have any taste in art
"should be impossible"
ha, ha ha
this entire premise would be perfect for an aai game
dang this is intense, first a blackout and then someone being murdered probably
RIP in peace
random flashback to his mother for some reason? this is probably relevant
hmm... this really sarcastic, biting comments phoenix is thinking regarding athena responding to him taking the case seem a bit out of character, iirc. hobo phoenix was snarky but not bitingly sarcastic like apollo. then again this could come with the phoenix you're writing in response to trucy leaving, idk
ohhh lord it's fulbright
you are a cruel, cruel man, dwam
"(Bobby Fulbright.
She self-proclaimed warrior of
should be "The", not "She"
"overkill", huh? not much of an invisible thief then...
"The backup generator is hooked
do a different power box, so
it wasn't affected by the EMP."
should be "to", not "do"
"Well, erm, not "anything".
Just... "must things". Or,
well, "some things", I guess."
"must" should be "most
"I practically walked into the
hospital, by hands gone and
bleedin' everywhere and told them:"
"by" should be "my"
"the dragon"... hm, something tells me this isn't a coincidence
the mystery of this prosecutor... hm
~*~*~trial time~*~*~
something tells me that this mystery man is von karma
"A theft and murder...
Sounds interesting."
should be female blips here
all of her lines after that line need to be female blips
oh is this intentional??
oh the prosecutor is a new dude, cool beans
his name wouldn't have to do with the reichenbach fall, would it?
i'm so confused why is reichenbach impersonating a prosecutor
what even is this whisper conversation
just a comment, it's very confusing when you make present texts like "And it's all because of this
fact...!" because if the player immediately forgets what's going on, then they're completely clueless. then again, maybe that's just me.
seems a bit out of character for phoenix
i should've known that it was trucy
"I'm gone?
Where did I run off too?"
should be "to", not "too"
why can't kane just tell us all of this stuff? seems like a bit of a plot hole to me
wait but how would they talk to the trucy disguised as mr jupiter??? wouldn't it be obvious that it wasn't him
also if trucy was in the mansion how would she prepare a disguise like that?????? she'd need materials and things
and how would she breathe while in the vault?
dammit why are you making me experience these wright family feels
"(...It didn't changed the fact that
the true culprit had gotten
"change" not "changed"
pls no clapollo feels
hm... didn't a murder occur in this jail cell?
"Clay wasn't a coward. And
neither was Mr. Sturbuck or
even Director Cosmos!"
"Starbuck" not "Sturbuck"
i have choice words for you, dwam. choice. words.
"...But then Daddy said "no
pls", and here I am."
this seems a little out of place
"They haven more reason to
look into it."
"have no" not "haven"
gasp, a flashback!
oh my god it's mother theresa
"However -- the door to it
is the a good one. And it's
an impenetrable one."
the whole first sentence needs to be rewritten
"no pressing"
as a trial author, the thought of not having to write press conversation gives me life
man this prosecutor's lobby is so nice
when asking trucy "any ideas":
"YOU were phone!"
i don't understand
"ian moriarty"
"compton baskerville"
ok dwam
who the heck is eileen
"My initial fortune came from
my father. He was a world-renown
"world-renowned" not "world-renown"
the drama.......
"It's so good too see you" or something like that, said by athena to apollo
"to" not "too"
any particular reason you're playing trucy's theme and not athena's theme?
dang i dunno who made them, but these phoenix front sprites are very nice
jesus christ this dragon dude is disturbed
damn they got moriarty too?????
MORIARTY WAS WRIGHT'S BROTHER???????????????????????????????
geez this is a long trial, i started like like 5 hours ago
wait that guy doesn't look like the moriarty from the trial
after presenting the people who screamed:
This makes sense."
needs a nametag
"(...I bet you're the type of
guy that clicks on the "free iPad"
pop up, aren't you?)"
i hate u dwam
after the phantom leaves:
"November 29
Wright Anything Agency
Phoenix's Office"
needs to be the typewriter blips
christ almighty this dragon guy is disturbed
"I posses valuable information
related to the case!"
"possess" not "posses"
dwam. i swear to GOD if they're about to declare that grossberg is the dragon.
i hate u so much right now, dwam.
here he is. the buns of steel.
i can't believe this is happening
(by the way apollo shouts something out during grossberg's testimony so you might need to remove that)
the. JUDGEEEEEEEE?????????????????????????????????????????????
"Giving physical evidence that
you witnessed a robbery is
"nigh" not "night"
and jupiter was a villain. what even.
jesus. christ.
by the way i went back and played bad ending one and it was even more painful that i imagined
Spoiler : final thoughts, also spoilers :
well that was insane and honestly i'm pretty sure every character in the profiles was a villain at some point during the trial. i enjoyed it and it was by no means bad, but my biggest gripe would be with the logic of the crimes. it felt like they were either highly contrived and filled with plot holes, or cheap solutions that didn't really make too much sense. however, the characters, dialogue, general story was decent. i feel like you might've just gone slightly too far with the convolutedness, imo. also this guy right here pretty much sums up how i feel right now: :random:
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by Enthalpy »

While you're on the topic, I'll add that I also thought the case was
Spoiler : Minor spoilers? :
very, very convoluted and hard-to-follow
, but I'm reserving any further judgment for now. Some recent events have sent me back to puzzling over how the logic of the canon games work so well. I expect I'll have some much more detailed feedback on the case after that, because this case deserves more than the paltry paragraph I gave it.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
Current AAO Development Priority: Issue #94: Grayscale Mode
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by enigma »

pretty sure that's the whole point of the case tho :chew:
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by migueloukao »

Turnabout Tomorrow and The Dragon's Turnabout spoilers ahead:
Spoiler : :
I just finished playing the case and I can't get this out of my head: Was Ian Moriarty the Cross from Turnabout Tomorrow? They had the same last name, the same appearance and, I may have misunderstood this, but I got the impression that Moriarty implies that he would jump at the opportunity of killing The Dragon if he were younger, which reminds me of the fact that Cross had the M.O of killing criminals (if memory serves me right). It is not confirmed in the case, hence my question.
Also, regarding nikekut456's question, here's my theory:
Spoiler : :
The Phantom also wanted Aura Blackquill, as he could not know whether Simon shared with her that psychological profile he had at the end of DD. Because of that, he intended to maintain his role as Fulbright until he could get his hands on her.
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by allamanda29 »

I took about 12 hours to finish this case. Awesome case! Just a tiny little critic, I found some testimony were too long.

What i loved the most about this fan case...
Spoiler : :
how you include Phoenix parents. I always want to know his relationship with his parents.. scene when Phoenix remembered his mother, and say rest in peace mom at the credits made me burst to tears.
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by Semper Solus »

Just found this, and I normally don't post Streams of Consciousness several months after a trial is completed (is that breaking a rule?), but I feel like I had to this time. I had so many thoughts. I'll compromise by posting only the highlights:

(I'm just worried this view inside my head will discredit me as a human being)
Spoiler : SoC (Spoilers for Dual Destinies, and maybe Prosecutor's Path?) :
  • So, if he never leaves behind a calling card, and never makes contact with anyone, who named him "Marrascaud"? That is a random-ass name.
  • Okay, I never pictured myself as the guy who gets emotionally invested in characters, but seeing Fulbright again has made me physically ill.
  • I find it kind of funny that he's still detective-ing. He's an international spy, but he's stuck posing as a precinct police sergeant with a Samaritan complex because... actually I don't know why. Fake your death, Bobby!
  • So, unless this trial pulls an Engarde, there are only two suspects. I hope it's Jupiter, and he burned his own painting and SAID Marrascaud stole it, because he's Marrascaud.
  • Is Marrascaud the Dragon?
  • The prosecutor is going to be Apollo. Phoenix hasn't seen him/heard his voice in a long time, and he "disappeared" in the prologue-- Oh. Who the heck is this guy?
  • "Can't lose this trial"? Oh. ... I bet he's Apollo in disguise. I'm not giving up on this.
  • I bet the twist is that the victim was the thief. Except I'm sure at least 3 official cases ended up like that. I guess it's lighter on the conscience to find murderers if the victims are criminals.
  • Oh, hey, the verdict. I guess we never find out who that DragonTrainer sprite everyone uses actually was?
  • I hate when people do that silent E thing. "IMPOSSIBLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY"
  • So Trucy's Marrascaud. Guess that means she's not the Dragon. Unless she was a three-year-old serial killer. (One can only hope)
  • CALLING IT: Trucy is a ROBOT. Built by Aura so that Phoenix can endure the pain of having a relative be executed for murder. This is going to be exactly as true as every one of my other predictions thus far.
  • Was that an entirely red sentence? I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt; It's an "important" sentence, not a "red truth" sentence.
  • It might have been green? This game really hates on red/green colorblind people.
  • Okay, if she left during the blackout... then she entered... as the victim? And used some Mr.-Hat-esque substitution trick? (Man, I am really bad at guessing.)
  • Huh. The other safe. ... How did she eat and go to the bathroom? She was only let out once, right?
  • Mr. Jupiter was seen running away from the body? Ha, more like Mr. HATpiter!
  • You're kidding me. That was also wrong?! It was so close! How was I supposed to know this universe allowed for teenage girls to disguise themselves as middle-aged men under the justification of "magic"?
  • Oh, hey! You answered the food and bathroom thing!
  • What IS Jupiter's relation to Theresa? Wannabe husband? Wannabe son? Wannabe Oedipal creepiness?
  • The "appeal" portion started, and my name is ???. Did I get hit on the head again?
  • No, wait. It said "Phoenix" then. DWaM is going for a shocking identity reveal. Those make no sense. I should know who I am!
  • Aw. I just mentioned "two years ago", hinting that I'm Apollo, but I also acted confused in my thoughts regarding Reichenbach, so the two people probably aren't each other. :gumshoe:
  • So, not a robot: a bomb collar. I should have known.
  • Okay, if I were a 74-year-old lawyer, I would retire. Sell my fancy furniture and use the profits to buy a Florida condo. Then again, maybe Grossberg is like the Judge. He just stops aging after a while.
  • I'm pretty sure Detective Badd looks the same in case I-5 as in case II-3 except for the holes in his coat, and those appearances are 26 years apart.
  • Hey, wait a minute. Is that... the victim from the case in the present??
    ... She hasn't aged either! It's been 15 years!
  • Okay, I guess Grossberg sounds like Zacharias Barnham. I have an :objection: of my own, now.
  • I see. The PHANTOM is the Dragon! It's so obvious! They both begin with "the"!
  • Ohhhh, it's that thing where there's a long, boring testimony but the contradiction is really obvious. The challenge is to pay attention, and not accidentally fast-click through it.
  • That is just not a good voice for Marvin Grossberg. I'm sorry. Even Godot's would be better. Or von Karma. ... Not von Karma.
  • What is "detective novel logic", and what isn't? Because there are so many things in this case so far that just don't make sense. Examples are a 1x2.5-meter painting slipping through a gap made by a camera-pulley and a ceiling, the length of wire used being perfectly calculated for the painting to be in reach of the magnet (with the calculations being done on the spot by a teenager and a security guard, both with spotty high-school educations), and a man with two plastic hands being able to stuff an incriminating 10m+ wire down his pants in 20 seconds. I'm honestly just kind of along for the ride.
  • Don't tell me Reichenbach is Cross. That'd be taking all pretenses of detective-novel fairness and throwing them out the window.
  • Calling it now: Wonderley is the dragon. I guess Short killed herself.
  • "Half brothers who look alike"? Oy vey. Well, at least Cross is dead.
  • I mean, the only other alternative to Wonderley I can think of is "the Phantom killed everyone", and he already DID that once.
  • Moriarty lives in one, too? Is Los Tokyo 90% Mansion?
  • Oop, male pronoun for the Dragon. I was wrong again. I can't tell whether this is embarrassing or fun anymore.
  • I love how Jupiter is such a nice guy, but just when you need him to cooperate, he is the orneriest, angriest man ever. All it takes is getting your painting stolen, getting accused of murder, and risking your your golden reputation being tarnished.
  • Calling it: Jupiter is Cross's father.
  • Why do people keep doing that? The blue part is supposed to read "Argument", and the red part is supposed to read "Rebuttal".
  • Oh, boy! A 100% penalty unless I can successfully read DWaM's mind. See, it's annoying because Short's investigation could have been some unexamined evidence pertaining to Jupiter's motive. Maybe, I dunno. But no! Apollo is grasping at different straws!
  • Ugh. I couldn't find the contradiction in the Lifeline CE because of--of all things--comma usage. I couldn't tell if Jupiter heard the scream shortly after witnessing the blackout, or if Jupiter heard the scream and, shortly after, witnessed the blackout. I'm exaggerating, but I still couldn't spot it easily, even after checking the walkthrough.
  • Ha, Edgeworth doesn't like shots in the dark. That's completely understandable. :calisto:
  • Dangit. There are two articles of evidence that say that Fawkes committed suicide, and I presented the wrong one to the Phantom (Short's Investigation).
  • Wait. They never checked the victim?! But they said prints were "unrelated to this case". How is a victim unrelated to the case? Try having a murder case without a victim. Just try.
  • Present Short's profile. This will cause Apollo to tap into Phoenix's memory and recall the victim wearing gloves back in Chapter 1. This is not written anywhere in the Court Record.
  • The main twist is that Apollo and Phoenix are one shape-shifter, as they are now explaining in their summation.
  • The reason I don't feel bad that all my guesses have been wrong is that the game requires you to guess wrong in order to proceed. I just wish I could guess wrong right instead of guessing wrong wrong.
  • Man, this guy is taking forever to give up.
  • They're discussing the mastermind, but I don't actually remember any clues leading to him.
  • Okay, it's someone related to the Fawkes case and who knew she was murdered, but ISN'T the Phantom/James Hutton.
  • Got it on the third try. Now to find out why. :judge:
  • You know what we need, right now? An EDM remix of Beethoven's Für Elise.
  • Now, it's time to face a pain in the butt WITH a pain in the butt.
  • Okay, even though he's apparently the mastermind, he should not sound like a knight of Camelot.
  • Huh, weird. More dead people?
  • Luke Atmey was assassinated? Man, way to scare away newbies. "You have to play every case or none at all!"
  • The true mastermind has to be someone who was in all three trials, huh? And the Phantom doesn't count, because he was only a radio in the third one. So who's left?
  • :shock: ... The Dragon DOES begin with The.
  • Oh, okay. So that person in that one intro wasn't Jupiter, but Udgey. 'Kay.
  • I'm still not sure who killed Short, though. Wasn't one of the twists that Kane left Short and the knife in the safe, but also Udgey couldn't have been on the scene? Did she kill herself, or what? Maybe she stabbed herself in the chest several times, put the knife behind her, and fell on it. That can happen, right? In detective-novel-land?
  • Hey! I'm wrong again! *iris out, as everyone laughs*
  • Say, what happened to Aura?
  • ... Oh.
I did not expect it to be so long. Or possibly offensive. (I wish I could tell.)

Other people are posting final thoughts. That sounds like a good idea.
Spoiler : <SmashAnnouncer>FINAL RESULT</SmashAnnouncer> :
One of the most difficult things about this game was the sheer walls of text you had to comb through whenever you moused over each item of evidence. In every single statement of the cross-examination, you had to go through each piece of evidence, and see if maybe there was a detail in a sentence that contradicted it. Except when you didn't, and you were just expected to memorize stuff.
Ace Attorney's always been more of a matching game than a memory game. All of the details needed to find the contradictions were there in the court record. However, they weren't all right there, in a disorganized mess. They were broken down into chunks of evidence. I don't know. Either the game needs more evidence (to partition the information) or more contradiction redundancy (so you don't need as much evidence).
I'm not even sure if you can use the rationalization that "I'm making a mystery novel, not an Ace Attorney game", since the inclusion of Wright's separated half-brother probably violates Knox's decalogue. Again, what do I know?
The game spent most of the time making wild, insane accusations. So did I. I just made the wrong wild, insane accusations. Also, three of the ones in the game turned out to be correct, albeit wild and insane.
It's also a little weird to completely recharacterize a canon character, and claim you fooled someone. Maybe that's just me.
I'm kind of nervous about posting my opinion on a forum. PM me and I'll delete it.
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by enigma »

if Knox, then mystery story.
if mystery story, then Knox.
if not mystery story, no knox.
if no knox, not mystery story.

logical and true
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by SPInc »

Really enjoying the case so far! I'm currently playing the Trial section, and there seems to be a problem.
Spoiler : Trial section :
I'm currently at the Thought Route section, where I'm asked which security camera was used for the pulley. For some reason, the diagram showing the vault floor plans (seems to be the case) doesn't show up at all. Thus, I can't choose the camera and progress through the trial.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of problem?
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by OutoftheBrown »

I'm also stuck at SPInc's problem. I would guess it might have something to do with DWaM's dropbox, because the problem stands with The Empty Turnabout. Area-pointing sections have been leading only to an impass, because the images are broken.
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Re: The Dragon's Turnabout (Released!) ●

Post by DWaM »

Just popping in to say that the aforementioned issues regarding pointing to areas in all of the cases have been resolved (at least, I hope so). It took me a while to notice that the dropboxalypse save didn't change the links for images that require to point at stuff. Things should be working properly now.
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