[T] A Laggy Turnabout ★

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[T] A Laggy Turnabout ★ 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Dim Avr 10, 2016 11:45 pm

Hello, and welcome to my first trial. I say Trial and I say First, but I've been messing with the editor since 2014, so I know my way around most things (which also means I learnt most of that the hard way). This particular case is one I started working on about 10 months ago. This trial has been finished and current frame count is 4586 (with A LOT of redundant frames, since I learnt as I went), although I'm not sure how big or small that is in the grand scheme of trials.
There isn't any real, meaningful or special reason behind me making this case beyond "I wanted to make something." - If I had to come up with one: "I want a prosecutor who isn't threatening."

Without further ado, the link to the trial. Please, feel free to give me feedback and spare no criticism. I can take it. Or pretend I can, anyway.

Link:
http://aaonline.fr/player.php?trial_id=77479

Update:
04/05/17 - Case updated slightly.
03/08/17 - Case updated to meet featuring requirement. Bugs fixed. A scene altered. Likely to be the final version.

Synopsis:
This synopsys tells you absolutely nothing. Still, for best results, go in blind.
Spoiler : :
You play as Apollo Justice, joined by Phoenix Wright, although you already know who the heck they are. This is set some time after the last case in Apollo Justice, and your client is someone you also know well. Someone you don't know so well is Prosecutor Stuffy, for you'll be facing a wholly unpredictable opponent who may or may not throw you for a loop.
Join Apollo Justice as he defends his client from the most clear-cut murder case he's ever seen, and somehow manages!

Screenshots:
Doesn't spoil the prosecutor.
Spoiler : :
ImageImageImageImage

Walkthrough:
This trial has a sizeable chunk of alternate content, which you may be unable to find in your initial playthrough. As such, this walkthrough has been created for the people who really are stuck on a particular instance, or for people who've already played through once.

Disclaimer: In any Prompt* without a flashing health bar, you can freely read the penalty conversation.
*Prompts are non Cross-Examination sections in which input from the player is required (i.e. Questions and Present Sections)

Spoiler : :
CE1 - Press All Statements.
EXTRA: Press Statement 4 and select Both options. Press the New Statement.


"What is the unclear evidence?" - Present Silenced Pistol or Dayna.
ALTERNATIVE: Present Fingerprint Analysis followed by Silenced Pistol.
EXTRA: Present Travis' Autopsy Report.
EXTRA: Present Toolbox.


CE2 - Press Statement 3, then Raise an Objection.
ALTERNATIVE: Press Statement 3, then Present Brushel's Article.
ALTERNATIVE: Press Statement 3, then Present Prosecutor Stuffy.
EXTRA: Present Brushel's Article or Prosecutor Stuffy on Statement 3 before pressing.
EXTRA: Press Statement 1, then Raise an Objection.
EXTRA: Press All Statements and listen to the Co-Counsel twice.
EXTRA PENALTY: If you presented the Fingerprint Analysis in the last testimony, Press the Last Statement and Raise an Objection.


If you Raised an Objection - Present Prosecutor Stuffy's Profile.
EXTRA: Any other profile produces a unique conversation.

If you presented Brushel's Article - Present Prosecutor Stuffy's Profile.
EXTRA: Any other profile produces a unique conversation.

If you presented Prosecutor Stuffy's Profile - Present Brushel's Article.
EXTRA PENALTY: Present the Prosecutor's Badge at any point since the start of CE2 but before the start of CE3.


CE3 - Press Statement 4 and Add Statement 4a. Press Statement 5 to unlock Statement 5a. Present Bracelet at either Statement 4a or 5a after both have been revealed.
ALTERNATIVE: "I've always got proof."
ALTERNATIVE: "No proof."
- After pointing out the contradiction CE3 will recommence. Present Spark Brushel on Statement 4a.
EXTRA: Press Statement 3 and Add Statement 3a. Press Statement 3a.
EXTRA: Press All Statements and listen to the Co-Counsel twice. After pointing out the first contradiction, listen to the Co-Counsel again.
EXTRA BAD END: Present wrong evidence 4 times.


Object any way you want.

Raise an Objection about the jacket.
EXTRA: Ask about the other two, but don't raise an objection.
EXTRA PENALTY: Ask and raise an objection about the Blood and the New Evidence.

"This fact completely changes your perspective on Mr. Brushel!" - Present Brushel's Article.

CE4 - Present Travis' Autopsy Report on Statement 6 or Statement 7.
EXTRA: Present Toolbox or Silenced Pistol on Statement 5.
EXTRA ALTERNATIVE: Press Statement 5 and then raise an objection. Then Present Toolbox or Silenced Pistol.
EXTRA PENALTY: Press Statement 5 and then raise an objection. Then Present anything but Toolbox or Silenced Pistol.

Your choices here almost always move the case forward. But here's the solution to the thought route:
Travis was shot before he got to the side room.

"It is possible for the victim to have been shot outside the side room!" - Present Brushel's Article.

"And I think he noticed a very interesting feature about our victim and wanted to find out more." - Present Travis' Autopsy Report.

"If Mr. Brushel didn't know about the wounds, then something else he did makes no sense!" - Present Brushel's Notes or House Interior Photos.
EXTRA: Present Brushel's Article.

"(What do I do?)" -End it all here (END 1).
-Continue the trial.

"With this, we might be able to figure out what happened on that fateful morning." - Present Brushel's Notes.
EXTRA: Present Johnson's Profile.

"What will I do?" -Let Johnson be arrested (END 2).
-Object.

CE5 - Present Silenced Pistol on Statement 5.
-Press last Statement and Raise an Objection.

"Does the defence maintain this position?" - Select Yes, she tried to incriminate Mr. Brushel.

"This shows that Ms. Might may go so far as to incriminate someone in order to protect Johnson." - Present Brushel's Article.

"(But who? Who said something relevant to this problem?)" - Present Violeta Allcock.
ALTERNATIVE: Present anything else.

Credits:
Do not look in here if you haven't played yet. And if you have, the in-game credits are ten times better.
Spoiler : :
Betatesters:
  • Enthalpy
  • Calvinball
  • Shikomizue
  • Blizdi
Sprites:
  • Credit to Hesseldahl and ApoloGrimoire for the extra Phoenix Co-Counsel Sprites.
  • Credit to DragonTrainer for Dayna Might's sprites.
  • Credit to Hesseldahl for Apollo's front sprites.
  • Credit to Zinle for the Prosecutor Stuffy sprite.
  • Credit to Novaraven747 for animating a great deal of the fan sprites used in this case.
  • Credit to AP-master for Travis' Jacket.
  • Credit to FenrirDarkWolf for Violini's Profile Picture.
I'm pretty positive everything is either free to use with credit and/or I got permission. Please tell me if there is something I cannot use, and I will take it down.
Music:
Dernière édition par Tiagofvarela le Mar Août 15, 2017 9:54 am, édité 22 fois.
A Laggy Turnabout
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Upcoming: A Tricky Turnabout, A Needy Turnabout, A Scholarly Turnabout
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Re: [T] The Laggy Turnabout ○ 

Message par Blizdi » Lun Avr 11, 2016 12:06 am

Hello, if you want me to beta test, I can help you? I beta test for Ropfa's Conflict of Interest (a pywright case) and did a bit for Angela Light. My expertise in feedback is mostly minor errors, rather than major, but if there's a significant major error I will of course note it. If you wish for me to help, let me know.
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Re: [T] The Laggy Turnabout ○ (Requesting Betatesters) 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Ven Avr 15, 2016 9:56 pm

The Trial has now finished development! Of course, it all depends on Betatester feedback, but for now, it's finished.

That said, I need Betatesters. If nobody applies before I finish my extensive playtesting, I'll just release the case once I finish; most of it has already been betatested anyway.
A Laggy Turnabout
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● (Released!) 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Mar Avr 19, 2016 7:53 pm

Case has been finished! It is now available for play.
Please feel free to share any and all feedback, positive or otherwise.

...In other news, not entirely sure what the rules on doubleposting are.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● (Released!) 

Message par ForTheLoveOfGodot » Mer Avr 20, 2016 1:59 am

I enjoyed it quite a bit - for a first case, it's very good. No spelling errors that I can recall, an interesting plot, some clever contradictions; I liked it. I'm assuming that
Spoilers:
Spoiler : :
the ending where you find out the young girl shot the victim is the 'true' ending; i.e. that's the correct solution to the case
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● (Released!) 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Mer Avr 20, 2016 10:31 pm

ForTheLoveOfGodot a écrit :I enjoyed it quite a bit - for a first case, it's very good. No spelling errors that I can recall, an interesting plot, some clever contradictions; I liked it. I'm assuming that
Spoilers:
Spoiler : :
the ending where you find out the young girl shot the victim is the 'true' ending; i.e. that's the correct solution to the case

Thank you for playing! Glad to know you enjoyed it.
As for your assumption, it is entirely up to the reader's interpertation, although...
Spoiler : :
When I wrote it, the true end for me is the one where Johnson gets arrested. It may be different for you!
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● (Released!) 

Message par Spyromed » Jeu Avr 21, 2016 7:52 pm

Spoiler : SoC and Stuff :
* Usually, the "???" nametags don't have spaced between the "?"s.
* The prologue ends kinda abruptly. That ast frame makes it seem like it's going to continue, but... it doesn't.
* PROPERLY FORMATTED TIEMSTAMPS YES
* The music transitions between Brushel's theme and the lobby are a bit short. Sometimes Brushel's will only play for about 5 or 6 frames...
* ...is that moomintroll
* That "Ema Skye" nametag should probably just be "Ema."
* I loved the prosecutor dropping the papers. Really makes him. Her. Whichever.
* If it was a time-delayed death, I'm gonna go with the "was shot outside, fled inside" classic for now.
* ...huh, the best SnK theme. Guess this... moomin... does have a serious side.
* When presenting "what's still wrong," if you get it incorrect, the music stops, but... that doesn't really serve much of a purpose. It kicks back in in two frames, and the canon games never did it like that.
* Bomber Girl. SHSL obvious culprit?
* "Might? You sure about that?" Well, she might be.
* ...Okay, new type of CE music.
* this goddamn prosecutor
* no monochrome sprite for flashback 0/10
* Should probably have a couple frames of dialogue after "No, I don't even like tea."
* Having so many merged frames to make up one frame just in order to change the pose of the character is a little odd. I know a lot of people fast click, so it just makes the sprites look off.
* "well, biscuits" You know I was highly sceptical when I heard the focus was on a "non-threatening" proseuctor but dammit this guy
* "...touché." -> "...Touché."
* Just realised, we're back to the old CE music... what was the purpose of the switch?
* "It was probably because of Mr. Brushel" in the press convo shouldn't have a wait timer.
* I do wish there was a system implemented that would make sure you couldn't just present the bracelet at one statement (granted, this time I actually knew the contradiction, but it seems like it could be exploited)
* ...I've never found a contradiction just... "funny" before. This mint problem was great
* A bomb? Whaaat? Never would have seen it coming.
* "Hey, Phoenix, where was I going with this?" Apollo calls Phoenix Mr. Wright
* Another CE music change... It actually sounds less intense than the AJ allegro used before.
* On presenting the toolbox at the i"he immediately opened the door" statement: the defense bench isn't set, so Apollo's floating in front of Might on the witness stand.
* Oh hooray, I got the totally for real truest of true ends, in which we acquit someone and don't find the killer. Nothing more to this, I'm sure.
* I KNEW I'd seen that moomintroll sprite set before.
* ...Whoa, um, hold up there, credits. (For the record, I clicked "check the credits" on this totally real ending and got spoiled on music for "Johnson's confession." Might wanna omit that one.)
* "This song will never end, will it?" Has two different Phoenix sprites on the frame (one under the other.)
* Okay, time for the disgusting fake ending in which we catch the culprit.
* "Let Jonshon be arrested"
* Hm. It sounds like she "tested" the gun (aka the "tool") to see if he'd feel pain, and then he died by accident from that?
* It looks a little weird to have "cross-
-examination" be written across two lines like that.
* ...Huh, you can just beat the testimony by saying "there's a thing wrong here" and not having to present anything?
* I... think thats the last of the endings?

Spoiler : General Thoughts :
.
Well, assuming there are three endings (not including bonus content,) that seems to be the whole case. So now, unstructured thoughts ahoy.

First off, I was dubious when you said this focused on an incompetent prosecutor, but you pulled it off way better than I could have expected. Easily the highlight of the case, having him drop papers and smudge prints... it all worked quite well. And while he was funny and, for the most part, probably smoking wacky tobaccy, it was nice that he still had some time to shine as an actual prosecutor at some points. Kudos for that music choice, too. I do wish he'd had some sort of role in the case itself, or a reason to be in the suit in the first place... a story of his own, of some sort, but as it stands, he's a good prosecutor for a lighthearted case like this.

Not many of the other characters were quite as well done, though, IMO. Bomber girl was a classic "case 1 villain" type person, but that didn't really matter so much, since that seems to be what she was designed for. She got a small tidbit at one of the ends when she's going to care for the 8 year old, and until the lategame, the characters don't seem quite as important as the contradictions. However, the 8-year-old and the father only appeared right at the end - more screentime for the latter two would probably have made the finalé a lot more effective, both when the father covers for her, and when it's revealed she had no clue what she had even done.
Perhaps if the girl had been introdcued earlier, and the motive foreshadowed, the climax might have been better. Or, if someone in court had to break it to her that what she'd done was wrong, and gotten her to understand (I feel like Stuffy might have been able to do something like that, showing his more competent side). At the moment, she has no breakdown or anything. Apollo just tells us what happens, and everything wraps up.
As for the father... there really seemed to be not much to him, either. He's got even less time in the game than Violeta, and the only thing he seems to do is cover for her and lead to a dud end if you believe him.

Maybe I'm just salty because knox 1, i'unno.

So yes, the characters and story aren't too great, and could probably have used fleshing out if an ending like that was going to be used.
But the main focus of the case, Stuffy aside, looked to be the contradictions, and these fared a lot better.
Standouts include the mint smell one, and the fingerprint analysis stuff near the end that cemented Stuffy as both smart enough to figure out what he'd done, but stupid enough to have done it in the first place. The only testimony that seemed out of place was one of the beginning ones against Might. Using the bracelet to point out contradictory statements is a neat idea (BUT WHAT SORT OF MADMAN DOESN'T MAKE EXTRA MECHANICS PART OF PRESS CONVOS INSTEAD), but from what I can tell, it was used precisely once. If there were more of these later, it'd be a great idea, but... as it stands, it seems like this contradiction could have been rewritten to just use normal mechanics.

Nitpick section:
The general presentation was prety good, but there was some odd stuff. Wait timers in places they generally didn't need to be (whenever a close-up sprite is shown, for example), the gallery sprites disappearing before fades, and the Ema nametag were the things that stuck out the most. There were also a couple of times where the music seemed to change for only a few frames before changing back, which seemed a little odd. There's also a press convo. in which the defense bench isn't actually switched to, so the conversation takes place on the witness stand with floating lawyers.

I'm... not too sure what purpose the switching to random cross-examination themes served, either. Using the 2007 ones would have worked for the whole case, but two of Might's tesimonies use orchestrated music from other games, and it only makes it stick out as strange. (There was another case, The Bitter Turnabout, I think, that did this a lot more, and it didn't really make sense there, either.
Finally, just want to point out again that the credits spoil Johnson's confession, even if the player hadn't reached that ending yet.
(and if we really nitpick, a properly monochrome Stuffy sprite for the flashback would be nice)
...But y'know, I think the properly formatted timestamps forgive all.

...Also, this might just be a personal thing, but... this case seemed to go by incredibly fast at some points, and the ever-changing music didn't help it seem like it wasn't rushing in a few places. A few more frames of dialogue in some spots, especially towards the ending contradictions, might have made things a bit easier to follow. Or maybe I just find cases in general hard to follow, who knows. Like I said, take this one with a grain of salt.

So I realise this might seem like a totally negative post and I'm just picking fault and being an asshole (let's face it, I probably am), but at the end of the day, I still honestly quite enjoyed this one. I don't know what it is, but Stuffy is one of the funniest OCs on the site. It's just a shame he wasn't fleshed out more - same with the other characters. If a bit more time had been spent with at least Violeta and the final confrontation, I think this whole case would definitely have been improved. As it stands, I'm... still not sure if I got the true ending. It seemed a little on the short side for that. Either way, I'm looking forward to whatever else you have lined up, because if this formula is perfected (and Stuffy is in it, because we NEED to see more of the guy) it could make for a brilliant trial.

of course basically all of this could be totally invalidated if there IS another end i'm not seeing that addresses all of it. in which case, disregard this aaaall.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● (Released!) 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Jeu Avr 21, 2016 10:54 pm

I'll reply to everything right now, thanks for the feedback!

Spyromed a écrit :
Spoiler : SoC and Stuff :
* Usually, the "???" nametags don't have spaced between the "?"s.
I initially didn't space them, but 'something' convinced me the game typically spaced them. I'll try to see if I find out what. Otherwise, I'll change them to their proper form.
* The prologue ends kinda abruptly. That ast frame makes it seem like it's going to continue, but... it doesn't.
Well, yes. Sorry. I really didn't know how to make it better, but not having any at all seemed weird.
* PROPERLY FORMATTED TIEMSTAMPS YES
* The music transitions between Brushel's theme and the lobby are a bit short. Sometimes Brushel's will only play for about 5 or 6 frames...
* ...is that moomintroll
* That "Ema Skye" nametag should probably just be "Ema."
I noticed this on release day and, thinking how weird it was nobody ever noticed this given how she'd been like that since the first beta testing period about 9 months ago, decided to see how long until somebody complained.
...That was fast.

* I loved the prosecutor dropping the papers. Really makes him. Her. Whichever.
* If it was a time-delayed death, I'm gonna go with the "was shot outside, fled inside" classic for now.
* ...huh, the best SnK theme. Guess this... moomin... does have a serious side.
* When presenting "what's still wrong," if you get it incorrect, the music stops, but... that doesn't really serve much of a purpose. It kicks back in in two frames, and the canon games never did it like that.
Stopping the music, restarting the music, etc. etc. was all on purpose. Sure, some people think it's awkward, but Stuffy's short theme led me into this habit of making music stop and start all the time. It sounded good to me, and is mostly used for comedic purposes.
I may reconsider going through all the music again in order to make it more consistent.

* Bomber Girl. SHSL obvious culprit?
* "Might? You sure about that?" Well, she might be.
* ...Okay, new type of CE music.
* this goddamn prosecutor
* no monochrome sprite for flashback 0/10
I couldn't do it. I was about to remove the flashback (you can see there are no more flashbacks beside that one) until I noticed Stuffy was already white, and just let it be. If you notice, the prosecutor's bench is also broken in the flashback.
* Should probably have a couple frames of dialogue after "No, I don't even like tea."
There are a couple of sections with "raise an objection" possibilities. Two of them have a back down without any extra dialogue, and this is one of them. I'm willing to stretch the rules pretty far for the sake of comedy, and the prompts themselves are meant to be the punch line. In order not to lessen the impact with standard dialogue right after, I immediately back down.
* Having so many merged frames to make up one frame just in order to change the pose of the character is a little odd. I know a lot of people fast click, so it just makes the sprites look off.
He's hyperactive. And it's for the sake of comedy. I see no issue.
* "well, biscuits" You know I was highly sceptical when I heard the focus was on a "non-threatening" proseuctor but dammit this guy
* "...touché." -> "...Touché."
Okay... I actually though lower-case looked better, but I'll fixt it when I find it.
* Just realised, we're back to the old CE music... what was the purpose of the switch?
For the first couple of cross examinations the CE music varies depending on what you did during the trial. This is the reason for the lack of consistency.
I later abandoned this idea, but kept on chaning music, because I personally dislike Apollo Justice's CE Music.

* "It was probably because of Mr. Brushel" in the press convo shouldn't have a wait timer.
It's on purpose. Punch line delivery. Speed reading may ruin delivery. Sorry, but you'll have to put up with these things occasionally.
* I do wish there was a system implemented that would make sure you couldn't just present the bracelet at one statement (granted, this time I actually knew the contradiction, but it seems like it could be exploited)
What do you mean?
You first need to unlock both contradicting statements in order to be able to actually object.

* ...I've never found a contradiction just... "funny" before. This mint problem was great
* A bomb? Whaaat? Never would have seen it coming.
* "Hey, Phoenix, where was I going with this?" Apollo calls Phoenix Mr. Wright
* Another CE music change... It actually sounds less intense than the AJ allegro used before.
I personally disagree, but I can see why. I initially considered making a version with just vanilla Apollo justice music, but coding that would have been hell, so...
* On presenting the toolbox at the i"he immediately opened the door" statement: the defense bench isn't set, so Apollo's floating in front of Might on the witness stand.
During testing I took the "present silenced pistol" instead of tollbox option. Turns out they get you to different frames due to slight dialogue changes. This has been fixed.
* Oh hooray, I got the totally for real truest of true ends, in which we acquit someone and don't find the killer. Nothing more to this, I'm sure.
* I KNEW I'd seen that moomintroll sprite set before.
* ...Whoa, um, hold up there, credits. (For the record, I clicked "check the credits" on this totally real ending and got spoiled on music for "Johnson's confession." Might wanna omit that one.)
That's unfair. I give you the option to go back and change the ending. If you're listening to the credits I'll presume you've finished. Anyway, I'll add a warning.
* "This song will never end, will it?" Has two different Phoenix sprites on the frame (one under the other.)
Fixed. I never understood why there are two Phoenix's; that also breaks many of his talking sprites.
* Okay, time for the disgusting fake ending in which we catch the culprit.
* "Let Jonshon be arrested"
Fixed.
* Hm. It sounds like she "tested" the gun (aka the "tool") to see if he'd feel pain, and then he died by accident from that?
* It looks a little weird to have "cross-
-examination" be written across two lines like that.
Totally normal in Portuguese, which is why I did it. I couldn't find another way to make it fit without breaking everything.
* ...Huh, you can just beat the testimony by saying "there's a thing wrong here" and not having to present anything?
What? No, sure, I made it so the contradiction would be obvious and that you could breeze through it, but you need to at least present the gun, right...?
* I... think thats the last of the endings?
If you cross-examined Violeta and found the two contradictions, then yes, that's everything.

Spoiler : General Thoughts :
.
Well, assuming there are three endings (not including bonus content,) that seems to be the whole case. So now, unstructured thoughts ahoy.

First off, I was dubious when you said this focused on an incompetent prosecutor, but you pulled it off way better than I could have expected. Easily the highlight of the case, having him drop papers and smudge prints... it all worked quite well. And while he was funny and, for the most part, probably smoking wacky tobaccy, it was nice that he still had some time to shine as an actual prosecutor at some points. Kudos for that music choice, too. I do wish he'd had some sort of role in the case itself, or a reason to be in the suit in the first place... a story of his own, of some sort, but as it stands, he's a good prosecutor for a lighthearted case like this.
I couldn't. I wanted to develop him as a character, I really did, but that would have killed his magic for me. As is, only very small hints remain.

Not many of the other characters were quite as well done, though, IMO. Bomber girl was a classic "case 1 villain" type person, but that didn't really matter so much, since that seems to be what she was designed for. She got a small tidbit at one of the ends when she's going to care for the 8 year old, and until the lategame, the characters don't seem quite as important as the contradictions. However, the 8-year-old and the father only appeared right at the end - more screentime for the latter two would probably have made the finalé a lot more effective, both when the father covers for her, and when it's revealed she had no clue what she had even done.
Perhaps if the girl had been introdcued earlier, and the motive foreshadowed, the climax might have been better. Or, if someone in court had to break it to her that what she'd done was wrong, and gotten her to understand (I feel like Stuffy might have been able to do something like that, showing his more competent side). At the moment, she has no breakdown or anything. Apollo just tells us what happens, and everything wraps up.
As for the father... there really seemed to be not much to him, either. He's got even less time in the game than Violeta, and the only thing he seems to do is cover for her and lead to a dud end if you believe him.
This is the kind of feedback I could have really done with, but alas. What's done is done.
I could decide to rewrite the final sections, which I know for a fact I rushed through... but that would only be in the future, probably. 10 months of working on this have driven me mad. I couldn't take it any more at one point.
Your suggestions are fantastic. I would have certainly done breakdowns and whatnot if the sprites permitted it, but since they didn't, I kept it relatively simple. That lead for a lack of explosively impactful moments.


Maybe I'm just salty because knox 1, i'unno.
Knox is irrelevant in Ace Attorney from my point of view. If you want to play detective and write a good mystery, then yes, it's important, but I didn't want to write a good mystery. I told you who the criminal was almost immediately after she showed up. The important parts in this case were the contradictions, Stuffy, and getting the message across that finding the truth isn't always pleasant. Preferably by making you feel for either Johnson, Dayna or Violeta at the end.
On the topic, what you call "Dud End" is my preferred ending, and the author's true ending. However, what I think is irrelevant. If you believe you got the "true ending" then you did.


So yes, the characters and story aren't too great, and could probably have used fleshing out if an ending like that was going to be used.
But the main focus of the case, Stuffy aside, looked to be the contradictions, and these fared a lot better.
Standouts include the mint smell one, and the fingerprint analysis stuff near the end that cemented Stuffy as both smart enough to figure out what he'd done, but stupid enough to have done it in the first place. The only testimony that seemed out of place was one of the beginning ones against Might. Using the bracelet to point out contradictory statements is a neat idea (BUT WHAT SORT OF MADMAN DOESN'T MAKE EXTRA MECHANICS PART OF PRESS CONVOS INSTEAD), but from what I can tell, it was used precisely once. If there were more of these later, it'd be a great idea, but... as it stands, it seems like this contradiction could have been rewritten to just use normal mechanics.
You know how I wrote this case? I came up with the idea of using Congenital Analgesia for a contradiction, and of having Stuffy for a prosecutor and just winged it from there. I didn't make any plans or scripts beforehand. I wrote it all in the editor itself and then later did a second pass to see if everything made sense. And this shows. I initially intended to have two witnesses simultaneously (like you can see in the bonus content) and whatnot, but a critical logic contradiction killed those plans, and the inspiration for that never returned.
And with this I mean to say: The bracelet was there because I was going to use it later, but then I didn't, and the contradiction itself is good as is, so I just let it be.


Nitpick section:
The general presentation was prety good, but there was some odd stuff. Wait timers in places they generally didn't need to be (whenever a close-up sprite is shown, for example), the gallery sprites disappearing before fades, and the Ema nametag were the things that stuck out the most. There were also a couple of times where the music seemed to change for only a few frames before changing back, which seemed a little odd. There's also a press convo. in which the defense bench isn't actually switched to, so the conversation takes place on the witness stand with floating lawyers.
I'm almost positive the wait timers are meant to be there. Like, I can't guarantee every last one of them is, but most are intended to be comedic pauses. What didn't work for you might be genius to someone else.
However, you telling me the close up sprites don't need to be timed is a blessing. It was very difficult to time them and I didn't even want to, but what convinced that was how the games did it.
The gallery sprites disappearing before the fad is because with both the fade and the sprites being pop-ups, I didn't know how to make it so the fades covered the sprites. I'll go mess around with that a bit. Maybe it'll get fixed.
Music changes are as whimsical as the case. I like it. If people (i.e. people other than you) find this to be an issue, I may change this decision.
That press only comes up in very specific circumstances, so I didn't go through that path during playtesting, but I've fixed it now.


I'm... not too sure what purpose the switching to random cross-examination themes served, either. Using the 2007 ones would have worked for the whole case, but two of Might's tesimonies use orchestrated music from other games, and it only makes it stick out as strange. (There was another case, The Bitter Turnabout, I think, that did this a lot more, and it didn't really make sense there, either.
Finally, just want to point out again that the credits spoil Johnson's confession, even if the player hadn't reached that ending yet.
(and if we really nitpick, a properly monochrome Stuffy sprite for the flashback would be nice)
...But y'know, I think the properly formatted timestamps forgive all.
To reiterate: Can't fix Stuffy, will probably remove. I like the orchestrated music better, sorry. I'll add a warning to the credits. It didn't even occur to me someone might willingly disregard the "go back in time" option to read the credits.

...Also, this might just be a personal thing, but... this case seemed to go by incredibly fast at some points, and the ever-changing music didn't help it seem like it wasn't rushing in a few places. A few more frames of dialogue in some spots, especially towards the ending contradictions, might have made things a bit easier to follow. Or maybe I just find cases in general hard to follow, who knows. Like I said, take this one with a grain of salt.
General feedback was that it's too long-winded... Sheesh, people. Make up your minds.
That said, did you know that there's a lot of extra content?
Did you get the instant bad end?
Did you get the special and unique Attorney's Badge Penalty?
There are also some different paths with extra dialogue unique to them, which is why I still haven't completed a walkthrough.
I'll make one so that people don't miss all that content if they like Stuffy. Because a lot of the penalties are somewhat funny, I'd like to think.


So I realise this might seem like a totally negative post and I'm just picking fault and being an asshole (let's face it, I probably am), but at the end of the day, I still honestly quite enjoyed this one. I don't know what it is, but Stuffy is one of the funniest OCs on the site. It's just a shame he wasn't fleshed out more - same with the other characters. If a bit more time had been spent with at least Violeta and the final confrontation, I think this whole case would definitely have been improved. As it stands, I'm... still not sure if I got the true ending. It seemed a little on the short side for that. Either way, I'm looking forward to whatever else you have lined up, because if this formula is perfected (and Stuffy is in it, because we NEED to see more of the guy) it could make for a brilliant trial.
Quick reminder that there's no true ending. You choose what's the true ending. Besides that...
Thank you for not holding back. This sort of feedback could have helped me make this case much better, but for now, I'm not coming back to do any major work on this one before finishing or getting bored of my next case (already in the works).
As you predicted, I absolutely intend to make another case with Stuffy, but not the next one. He's harder to write than you might think.


of course basically all of this could be totally invalidated if there IS another end i'm not seeing that addresses all of it. in which case, disregard this aaaall.


Working on a Walkthrough. There's a lot of easily missable content after all.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● (Released!) 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Ven Mai 06, 2016 5:59 pm

Walkthrough has been concluded.
However, it is beyond confusing. I honestly couldn't think of a way to make it less so whilst simultaneously including all the unique content.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Jeu Juin 02, 2016 6:51 pm

How unfortunate, this will make a triple post.
Anyway, the case has been temporarily taken down as I add some changes and conduct general bugfixing.

Case is back up! Updated one of the endings a bit. Fixed a couple of minor typos. General playtesting to make sure everything still works.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● 

Message par Enthalpy » Ven Juin 03, 2016 2:42 am

This is on my to-play list, now that I have time to play cases again. I'm looking forward to seeing what you did with the case after the last time I tested it.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson

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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Lun Juin 06, 2016 11:22 pm

Enthalpy a écrit :This is on my to-play list, now that I have time to play cases again. I'm looking forward to seeing what you did with the case after the last time I tested it.

I would love to hear your thoughts on it again, now that it's finished.
I can't wait for a barrage of criticism at what I did wrong. Here's hoping that's as diminutive as possible, but I am ready to listen.


In other news, I may have accidentally saved this trial while I was fixing a small typo. I forgot about it, but I believe saving the trial will cause saved games to bug out when loading. If you had the trial saved, and run into any issues while loading it, my apologies. It is entirely my fault.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● 

Message par Tiagofvarela » Ven Déc 02, 2016 1:34 am

Geh, I feel kind of bad for making so many posts in my own thread, but here goes yet another double post.

As I was reviewing my cases today, I noticed my walkthrough missed one little thing, which has been updated.

Anyway, as bit more of a substantial update to this post, I had a brainstorming session which gave me some ideas on how to fix some one-dimentionality, which isn't a word. This case should get updated sometime early next year and then I'll move forward towards getting it featured. It's, like, you gotta believe, man.
Any feedback before then is exceedingly welcome. I'll give you all my internet cookies filled with salty tears from the criticism.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● 

Message par nWoObjection » Mar Déc 06, 2016 6:41 am

This was quite a fun little case. Would love to see that prosecutor be used again in the future.
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Re: [T] A Laggy Turnabout ● 

Message par Ferdielance » Mer Déc 07, 2016 7:13 am

I recommend this case. It's the AAO equivalent of a candy bar - not hugely filling, but tasty while it lasts - and I like candy. Also, the prosecutor is like a candy bar on some level.

One thing I find particularly impressive is the sheer range of alternative responses. Tiagofvarela clearly tested this like crazy, and worked out all the plausible responses a player could give, and then made sure the case had something fun and specific to say even to incorrect answers. This responsiveness gives the case a pleasant kind of "squishiness." It makes fun noises when you poke it! I'm reminded of great interactive fiction like Lost Pig and Place Under Ground, where even the silliest ideas get a response from the game.

A Laggy Turnabout even goes so far as to store specific choices from earlier in the game... even when those choices have no effect on the ending. Rather, the game remembers, on at least one occasion, which argument you chose to make early on, and then penalizes you if you contradict yourself later. This is a wonderful touch! Stored state can be used in subtle ways as well as obvious ones.

This is one place where fangames can outshine official cases. The canonical AA games are painfully unresponsive at times, especially early in the series. But as each low-budget fancase is a labor of love, the time that would otherwise have gone into making world-class sprites and music can instead go into making the game more interactive from moment to moment.

My biggest complaint about A Laggy Turnabout is that while the prosecutor steals the show, the witnesses are not as entertaining. (Accents and verbal tics are not personalities, and the killer is not written like an actual human being of any age, class, or background.) Although the finale adds a layer of depth to their motivations - and, incidentally, is a lovely implementation of a moral dilemma in AA - the added depth comes too late in the game. ALT's conclusion is gutsy, but not set up well enough earlier on.

Spoiler : A problem :
The distracting presence of Viola is an issue, too. And I love Viola. Viola is great. But her presence in the end raises the (hopeless) possibility of making the argument that she's the real killer and somehow tricked the killer into shooting the victim for her own purposes.

It turns out it's not that kind of case, but...


Any rewrite of this case should probably focus on character rewrites and cluing the solution in some ways, while simultaneously delaying other clues. It's a tough balancing act, but with those changes, this is easily a Featured Case, in my opinion.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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