[M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Find and discuss trials made by other members and showcase your own trials.

Moderators: EN - Forum Moderators, EN - Trial Reviewers

User avatar
DJJ6800
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: Somewhere on the Planet Earth

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Heh. The next Sherlock, right here, folks! But seriously, time for the next part of my theory. Who was responsible for the fake body? It’s likely either the culprit or Larry. I’m gonna lean towards Larry. My guess is, he stored the fake body inside his manor, likely somewhere secluded like the cellar. He wanted to fake his death to draw suspicion away from himself in the corrupt prosecutor case. This explains why he was so aggressive at first but panicked when Payne discovered him again.
astand
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:39 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Russian

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
I have been under impression that the "locked room" referred to the mystery of Franziska dissapearing from the study, not to the mystery of Payne appearing in the study.
I assume it must refer to the second, and only the second?
Because I never even thought about Payne's situation as the locked room before, as it wasn't stated to be such.
Can you confirm that at some point in time Payne was unconscious in the study with all three doors locked?
So it's clear what I even need to theorise about.
smkramer313
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:18 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Sounds good so far! Now for the hard part. How the heck did the culprit and accomplice manage to create the locked room in the study and bypass the bathroom door locks?
Spoiler : astand :
Payne was unconscious in the study, wrapped in the bloody blanket and with the murder weapon, with all three study doors locked.
User avatar
DJJ6800
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: Somewhere on the Planet Earth

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Once again, the killer coerced Larry and Franziska to come out using information about the corrupt prosecutor case. In this case, likely blackmail since my new theory is that Larry was one of the guilty parties in the case. For the locked rooms, Franziska escaped from the study, likely because she was part of this too. Actually...I think I’m getting it now. The other party just let her leave because THEY were in on the corrupt prosecutor case too. And then both Larry and Franziska were killed because they could’ve revealed the culprit’s role in the case. In that case, the killer is likely Phoenix. After all, Edgeworth was with Payne most of the time so he’s likely the accomplice, going along with Phoenix’s plan.
astand
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:39 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Russian

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
Phoenix is the culprit, Edgeworth is the accomplice. The theory remains mostly the same compared to my previous Phoenix/Edgeworth one.

I'll copy this paragraph from it:

Edgeworth's testimony, while accurate, contains several omissions. In the dining room, he let Franziska out and locked the door again (Franziska went to right bathroom as in previous theories). After that he went into the library, and back into dining room, where he found Larry. Larry hit Edgeworth with the bottle, knocking him out. This bottle shattered, which was the sound Alfred and Payne heard (thinking it came from the study was a mistake). Larry then carried Edgeworth to the library.

Klavier was barricaded by Phoenix beforehand.

What's slightly different: at the same time Larry was transporting Edgeworth into library, Phoenix ran through the central hallway into right hallway and met him there. It was an opportunity for Phoenix to give Larry the wine cellar key, who placed it on Edgeworth (I don't know what sort of collaboration was going on between Larry and Phoenix, but let's say Larry didn't know about murders that were going to occur, or about Payne locked room that was going to happen). This way Edgeworth's testimony remains accurate.

Phoenix kills Franziska, quickly runs back, waits for Payne to open the barricade, knocks him out and moves him to the cellar. Then he kills Larry.
Edgeworth wakes up and both Phoenix and Edgeworth stand near central hallway on both sides, and Edgeworth throws the wine cellar key to Phoenix.
Alfred's testimony doesn't confirm that he was guarding the central hallway the entire time, so it's possible that he entered Entrance area for whatever reason, and couldn't witness this.
Phoenix then used the wine cellar key to move Payne to the study and lock the door.
smkramer313
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:18 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
There is some evidence that the culprit could have used to get Larry and Franziska to open the bathroom doors to them. I'd recommend pursuing this avenue as it can help establish a motive.
Spoiler : astand :
Alfred would have noticed if Edgeworth threw the wine cellar key over to Phoenix since he was guarding the central hallway. Also, after killing Franziska, Phoenix would have been spotted by Alfred if he went through the central hallway to get to the left hallway.
User avatar
DJJ6800
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: Somewhere on the Planet Earth

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Alright then. The message from the killer is too...convenient. I’m gonna go with that coded message. Perhaps it was used to communicate with Larry and Franziska, get them to cooperate. As for what that message actually means, no idea.
astand
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:39 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Russian

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
According to Alfred's testimony:
I didn't notice anything else suspicious while I was guarding the central hallway.

Can you confirm in red that Alfred continued to guard the central hallway (i.e. remained in the central hallway) for the entire time after discovering Franziska was gone from the study? My claim was that he could have moved elsewhere at some point.
Even if it's not the case, I can claim that either Phoenix or Edgeworth could throw a bottle from left/right hallway to knock him unconscious (while he was looking in the other direction or something) and throw the key after. Could something like that happen, i.e. did Alfred remain capable of noticing anything suspicious in the central hallway the entire time?

As for Phoenix movements, my claim was that he managed to move from the left hallway to the right hallway, kill Franziska in the right bathroom and move back to the left hallway all during the time period when both Payne and Alfred were in the study, wondering where Franziska had gone.
From the wording of your reply, it's not a problem about going to the right hallway, but rather going back to the left hallway?
Can you confirm there wasn't possibly enough time for the movement I described?
Or perhaps Payne/Alfred would have heard someone running in the central hallway during that time, and that is the issue? What if someone ran, like, barefooted?

While we are at it, I will ask for one more clarification:
All of the doors to the study were locked before the corpses were discovered.
Does this mean the doors must stay locked from the moment just before the first body discovery to the moment just after the second body discovery?
Or from the moment Alfred locked the central hallway door until the moment just after the second body discovery?
smkramer313
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:18 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : astand :
Alfred was guarding the central hallway the entire time after discovering Franziska was gone from the study.
Alfred was capable of noticing anything suspicious happen in the central hallway.

I have no problems with that claim about Phoenix running through the hallway while Alfred was not there (whether or not that's what happened is still up for scrutiny).
And neither of those moments is accurate. By "corpses", I refer to Larry and Franziska's corpse discoveries (and not the first body discovery). The doors could have been unlocked as long as they were able to be locked before Franziska and Larry were found.
astand
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:39 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Russian

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
Alright, I'm sticking with Phoenix being the culprit, Edgeworth being the accomplice.
Franziska and Larry murders are as I described earlier (if Phoenix running in the hallways hypothesis isn't a problem, after all).

After the murders - Phoenix waits in wine cellar with unconscious Payne. Klavier finds Larry's body in left bathroom. Edgeworth finds Franziska's body in right bathroom, then moves to dining room. As a reminder, Edgeworth has dining room key and wine cellar key at the time (I earler claimed Phoenix passed it onto Larry when he was running around; it's also possible Phoenix just dropped it and Larry picked it and placed onto Edgeworth for whatever reason).
Edgeworth opens the door to the study from his side with the key.
Now, red truth about the doors: These doors can only be locked from the outside with the specific key.
It doesn't actually state anything about unlocking the doors! So I claim that they are unlockable from the inside without any keys (seems reasonable - to prevent someone from being trapped inside).
Which means Edgeworth could open the door to the wine cellar from the study side, help Phoenix to move Payne to the study and give Phoenix wine cellar key.
After that, Phoenix and Edgeworth return to respective rooms and lock both doors once again.
User avatar
DJJ6800
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: Somewhere on the Planet Earth

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Given the lack of response, I’m guessing I don’t have enough for a complete theory. Well then, let’s begin. Phoenix is the culprit, Edgeworth is the accomplice. First part happens as I said before. Larry fakes his death by disguising the body in the corrupt prosecutor case as his own body to avoid suspicion. And maybe to start over. His note to Franziska says he wanted to “make things right.” Perhaps this was his way of doing so. Him, Franziska, Phoenix and Edgeworth were all in on it. They locked Franziska in the study but she got out because Phoenix opened the door for her and she went to the bathroom to hide. Phoenix then locked the door again and smashed a glass to lure Payne and Alfred. Meanwhile, Larry is hiding in the manor and when Payne makes it into the library, Larry is acting evasive because his cover was blown. He retreats to the other bathroom to clear things up. Meanwhile, Phoenix swaps keys with Edgeworth to try and avoid suspicion and convinces Franziska to open her door to all about the case. He convinces Larry to come out by telling him that Franziska is dead.
astand
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:39 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Russian

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : Correction :
Actually, Edgeworth had both keys with him at the time.
So he just opened the wine cellar door from inside of the study with the key. "Unlocking without a key" is redundant and doesn't need to be possible.
Which makes my theory simpler.
smkramer313
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:18 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by smkramer313 »

Spoiler : DJJ6800 :
Your theory does not account for how Payne wound up locked inside the study. Also, you need to be more specific on how Phoenix and Edgeworth got their keys swapped (assuming one of them isn't lying about it). Also, if Franziska did get let out by Phoenix, she could have only fled to the left side bathroom because the right bathroom was on Edgeworth's side.
Spoiler : astand :
The doors can only be unlocked from outside the study with the specific key.
User avatar
DJJ6800
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English
Location: Somewhere on the Planet Earth

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by DJJ6800 »

Spoiler : :
Very well then. My response is this: I'll amend the theory so that Edgeworth was the one who let Franziska out into the dining room. As for the keys issue, I have two ideas. One is that Phoenix was temporarily working with Larry on this issue. After Edgeworth was knocked out, Larry took his key to the dining room, gave it to Phoenix, who gave his key to the cellar to Larry, who put it on Edgeworth's unconscious body. The second is that Larry simply did it on his own to confuse things. He saw Phoenix passed out and knocked Edgeworth out, switching their keys. As for which one I'm going with, for the time being, it's the latter. Finally, the study issue. Alfred was actually Phoenix's butler. After all, he never directly stated who his "master" was. Phoenix simply asked Alfred for one of the study keys. Then, he snuck Payne's body in there while he was still unconscious.
astand
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 3:39 pm
Gender: Male
Spoken languages: English, Russian

Re: [M] Endless Nights - Daybreak

Post by astand »

Spoiler : :
Then I will make the following amendment to my theory:

I already explained how wine cellar key ended up on Edgeworth - Phoenix placed it in his pocket while he was running towards right bathroom and Larry was in hallway, moving Edgeworth to library (or Phoenix passed it to Larry, who placed it onto Edgeworth).
Then right after Larry enters the library with Edgeworth, Edgeworth wakes up, moves to the hallway again and gives wine cellar key back to Phoenix, who is running back after murdering Franziska.
Edgeworth then pretends to be unconscious for some time in the library OR he is knocked out by Larry for the second time.

After murders Phoenix and Edgeworth would be on both sides of the study with respective keys and would have no problems locking Payne in there.


I do realize the sequence is starting to sound pretty silly (and is mostly used to circumvent purple statement about wine cellar key in Edgeworth's pocket), but it's mostly for the purpose of getting further red truth.
Post Reply