[T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●○○○

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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Jeu Oct 24, 2013 6:14 am

Hey, everyone, remember me?

I've been processing all the feedback that I've been getting over the past few months, and now I'm thinking of finally returning to this project. It may be a while before I start since I'm really busy with school and YouTube, but I do think it's time to get back to work here.

For one thing, I think I might have finally figured out how to better explain Maya's new career. Obviously I'm not telling about what this is, but it should improve the plot greatly, and maybe even prevent it from going totally into AU territory. Granted, with Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies being released tomorrow, that might not happen, but I'm still hopeful. ;) Anyway, what I'm planning on doing is adding a third part to Case 1.
Spoiler : :
It will be a scene involving Maya, Phoenix and Pearl at the burger joint (as mentioned at the end of Case 1). Maya explains to Phoenix why she became a lawyer, how Phoenix hasn't seen her for years, and other stuff. Also, the prologue I currently have can be totally disregarded once this is ready. :P


I do know one thing, though, and it's that I'm not sending this through QA inspection again. I'm no Blackrune and that's not changing anytime soon. :sideglance2:
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Mer Nov 13, 2013 5:01 am

Well, now that I've gotten through Dual Destinies, it looks like the new explanation for Maya's new role I had ready didn't quite cut it. So, I'll be retooling it a bit more to make it fit in with the new canon.

What was going to be a Part 3 to Case 1 is now going to be a full case, now Case 4: The Missing Turnabout. I don't know when you'll be seeing it, but it won't be until after Case 3 is done.

In other news, I finished the rewrite of Case 1. It now makes more sense and fits with the canon of the rest of the series and Dual Destinies.
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par drvonkitty » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 12:33 am

Well, I decided to go ahead and give the first case of your game a try. The following is my review- I apologize if I seem rude at any time, this is entirely meant to be constructive criticism to try and help improve the case! :D
Spoiler : Case One Review :
I figure I should start off by saying I didn't even get through the entirety of part one. This is due mostly to the fact that I just simply got stuck. Let me explain why- there's a good tutorial by Meph about there talking about how players are forgetful. This couldn't be more true- a player is going to forget key things from the case, even things that were said just one or two frames ago. As I played through, I got past Pearl's first testimony and then got to a part in which I had to present some evidence. The following is quoted from the game exactly:

I'll show you...with evidence!


This is a huge no-no, as I have absolutely NO idea what I need to present here. Why?
...because I forgot. Plain and simple- players are forgetful. I remember randomly starting up one of the parts of one of the other cases, and it literally begin with Maya saying practically the same thing. This is an easy fix- simply change the dialogue to something like this:

I'll show you why there couldn't have been "blah blah blah" with evidence!


Anyways, moving on. Another problem I felt from my short playthrough was that the case just feels so rushed! To me, it felt like there were fewer than 50 frames of exposition until I was thrown into a trial with absolutely zero idea of what the heck was happening. We're given perhaps two or three lines of Maya saying "I'm a lawyer!" until we're suddenly in the detention center talking to Adrian Andrews who's been apparently accused of murder. Keep in mind the player has no idea what's going on here- apparently Adrian has been accused of a crime and we're defending her?! What? Why is Maya a lawyer? How did Maya know what was going on? Why does Adrian accept Maya's help so willingly?!

This can be fixed by just simply adding some exposition. An introductory scene in which you have someone being shot, cut to Adrian screaming and being arrested etc would make so much more sense. In the player's mind, it'd click 'So Adrian Andrews has been accused of a crime?' Then perhaps you can have Maya do her little exposition thing, and have her receive a phone call about Adrian being accused. While this may not be the best was to implement it, some sort of exposition would be highly preferable to the randomness at the beginning.

The pre-trial lobby scene is also quite lacking. To me, it felt rather short. Phoenix isn't going to be more surprised at Maya becoming a lawyer? Is this the first time they've seen each other? If so, maybe they'd be happier to see each other? These were some of the things I was questioning as I played through it.

To be completely honest, the entire situation from what I saw is just lacking in general. The interaction between the characters doesn't feel natural at all. It feels mostly like a whole lot of one-liner jokes and the like, and never any real discussion between the characters. Have Maya and Phoenix talk, maybe have Phoenix tease her some like he so often does as his AJ-self. This would make the plot so much more interesting, and make me actually care about the characters in this particular fan-case (tl;dr just make them feel more like people and act like their canon selves [unless such wouldn't be appropriate]).

Unfortunately, I felt like Maya's character was EXTREMELY lacking from what I saw. Like, REALLY lacking. At some points, you got her acting like her peppy, excitable self. At others, she felt like some random, stock OC who I could care less about because she has about as much personality as a rock. Do keep in mind that I was unable to play too far into the case, but that was the general impression I got of her character.

On the character of Pearl- she felt so... well, out of character. I understand that she's definitely changed. But why has she changed? The player has had two whole games to see Pearl's happy, innocent little-girl self. You can't just have an older~Pearly who's a jerk and say "People change as they grow up..." and leave it at that! For example, when Older~Ema showed up in AJ, there was an explanation given as to why she was snarky and rude. Now, maybe you gave that explanation later, I don't know. But still, at least give the player SOMETHING when she shows up.

Phoenix+Maya seemed pretty non-chalant about Pearl being a witness, btw. They're surprised for a few frames and then everyone just forgets about it.

On a lighter note, music+grammar are good. No problems there.

I could keep going on and on, but I feel like I've made my point clear. Perhaps later I'll manage to present the right thing and continue on past where I got for this review, but this is what I've got to say for now. Best of luck to you, 256Pi!! :D
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par Rtaos Grimm » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 1:03 am

drvonkitty, you've given me an idea for 256 Pi.

256 Pi: On your first post the prologue is actually the third entry on the list of links so the majority of people may miss that. You've added a note to say you may scrap it, so that's why. In that case, as drvonkitty said, you'll need exposition to why Maya is where she is because if the prologue is gone then there's nothing. Considering you've just rewritten Case One, how about you include a short prologue at the start of there? Something like a simplified version of the prologue you did make.
Status: Tired and out of it.

Bullet Tooth Tony: "Boris the Blade?
Solomon: "Yeah."
Bullet Tooth Tony: "As in Boris the Question Dodger?"
Solomon: *nods head*
Cousin Avi: "Why do they call him the Question Dodger?"
*pause*
Bullet Tooth Tony: "Because he dodges questions, Avi."

Adapted from the film "Snatch"
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par drvonkitty » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 1:56 am

There's a prologue?! Was that there earlier...? Because I'm pretty sure I checked back to see if there was one and didn't see it...
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par Rtaos Grimm » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 1:59 am

drvonkitty a écrit :There's a prologue?! Was that there earlier...? Because I'm pretty sure I checked back to see if there was one and didn't see it...


It's on the first post, third link position in the list under the title Maya Fey: The Prologue. See what I mean? People don't see it.
Status: Tired and out of it.

Bullet Tooth Tony: "Boris the Blade?
Solomon: "Yeah."
Bullet Tooth Tony: "As in Boris the Question Dodger?"
Solomon: *nods head*
Cousin Avi: "Why do they call him the Question Dodger?"
*pause*
Bullet Tooth Tony: "Because he dodges questions, Avi."

Adapted from the film "Snatch"
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par drvonkitty » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 2:03 am

Ah, well. I could have sworn that wasn't there when I started playing... :oops:
Either way, my point still stands as Rtaos said, considering you declared that prologue non-canon. Exposition is still sorely needed.
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 5:02 am

The prologue is on the bottom because it's no longer included in the plot, mainly due to Dual Destinies. You can completely ignore it if you choose to.

I realize it's incredibly short and not really a great case as-is (and Case 2 isn't much better), but that's kind of because I suck at exposition. I can never seem to be able to flesh out a case very much. I also know Maya is pretty off-character, but that's mainly because I plan on explaining why she acts the way she does later on in the series. (The same goes with Pearl, her change in personality is explained at the end of the case.) Sorry for the confusion.

You do bring up many good points, though, and I will certainly try to fix up the things that you mentioned to the best of my ability. I already know that these cases aren't particularly good right now and that they needed a lot of rewrites and exposition, so I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy it, but thanks for giving me some pointers on where to go next. :P
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par Phantom » Jeu Nov 14, 2013 5:20 am

Regarding exposition...The cool thing about that is that for literature, you can use a variety of ways to provide more exposition. I've learned how to do exposition from a writer that REALLY loves to do a bunch of it: Hideo Kojima. Play any Metal Gear Solid game with cutscenes, and you'll be blasted with exposition here and there.

After all, exposition in its most basic terms is providing background information (or in the case of AA, extra details) that the player can digest on characters, settings, or events. It's a way to naturally help the player be immersed in a world, or care to invest their time/emotions in a character. In MGS, you usually are provided exposition through long cut-scenes, or through the codec.

Let's try an example, if I know I'm playing a case that's set in the year 2020, that's...ok.
Only thing is, the player needs some context as to why he/she should care about the writers putting the player in this specific time period.

What you would probably do then, is in the beginning of a case, present a time-line of important, relevant events that lead up to the player's 2020 time period. For example: 1999-this happened. 2001: this tragic event happened. 2010: a new technology just got invented. 2015: a conflict just started. 2018: another tragic event happened. Then, shift to 2020: some event is about to happen/some event is happening now.

I just provided exposition, and even though it's very basic example, I've now given you the player a reason why you're set in 2020, and that you should be remotely interested in considering the BACKGROUND INFORMATION I gave you leading to that time period.

Notice I only focused on providing exposition to just the time period? That's just ONE way of providing exposition. You can provide more background information on a character through a time-line base (though it wouldn't be really practical unless it's some historical character).

You can provide exposition indirectly, as it doesn't have to be in-your-face to the player. For example, I can pick up a letter in an investigation gameplay written by Maya Fey that was meant to be seen only by another character (let's say Phoenix Wright), confessing that no matter all her troubles, he was always there for her. And that she may have a thing for PW.

This can be motivation that the player discovers about late in the game about Maya, whom acts in a way to try to protect Phoenix Wright in great danger, even if she has to sacrifice her life to do so.

Another way to provide exposition is through monologuing. But anyways, I think you get the point. It's not about how do you exposition really, it's how much you do it, and when you do it at an appropriate time.

Here's more information:
http://examples.yourdictionary.com/exam ... ition.html
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Dim Nov 17, 2013 9:00 am

Well, thanks for the advice. :) I'll certainly take it into account.
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par ChrisofDEATH » Mer Nov 20, 2013 5:53 pm

This trial is Genius. But i would ask if i can have the link to Pearl's Sprites... If it's fine with you I would like to use them in my Trial.
Bring it! I can Handle any challange thrown at me!
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Mar Nov 26, 2013 3:19 am

Well, you're the first person to say that, actually. :shock: It's not even close to done, you know.

I suppose if you want the Pearl sprites, that's fine. I'll PM you them.
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par GuardianZen » Mer Nov 27, 2013 10:37 pm

Just played the first case, and I'm impressed.

My only complaints were a few things with...
Spoiler : The OC Witnesses :
That ain't right!
Okay, not really.
They were okay, but Pearly looked a bit out of place for some reason and Normand... Ugh... Sorry, but ugh...

Oh, and these lines:
I din't say "Yana", dumba*s! I said "Y'Honor"!
I dunno. I was by a clock or somethin'. Why's somethin' retarded like that so important?

Saying those things ain't right!


Other than that, it was pretty well made.

:maya: / 5
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Mar Déc 03, 2013 9:11 am

GuardianZen a écrit :Just played the first case, and I'm impressed.

My only complaints were a few things with...
Spoiler : The OC Witnesses :
That ain't right!
Okay, not really.
They were okay, but Pearly looked a bit out of place for some reason and Normand... Ugh... Sorry, but ugh...

Oh, and these lines:
I din't say "Yana", dumba*s! I said "Y'Honor"!
I dunno. I was by a clock or somethin'. Why's somethin' retarded like that so important?

Saying those things ain't right!


Other than that, it was pretty well made.

:maya: / 5


Yeah, I agree with these issues you mentioned. If you were referring to the sprites, unfortunately there's not much I can do. I'm not exactly what one would call a great artist. :lol:

But those lines are easy fixes. (I don't know why I didn't change the first line earlier.) There are still a lot of problems with this case I need to fix (whether you mentioned them or not), but I'm really busy with other stuff at the moment, so I'll be able to address all these problems once I get time to work on this again. Not sure right now when that'll be. :P
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Re: [T] Maya Fey: Spiritual Successor ●●○○○ 

Message par 256 Pi » Lun Déc 23, 2013 8:36 am

Alright, I finally did a couple more rewrites of Case 1. I doubt the case is done yet, but I did try to address as many of the issues as I could. (The case is still really short, but as usual I'm still not great at writing long stuff. :P)

Case 2 is still largely unfinished, though, so I'm guessing that's going to be my next step.
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