[T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ★
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- Bad Player
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[T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ★
So this is me and Rune's entry.
Note: Play in Firefox, and there is an automatic checkpoint system in-game, so no need to save/reload. (Seriously... Please save/reload as little as possible.)
Note: Play in Firefox, and there is an automatic checkpoint system in-game, so no need to save/reload. (Seriously... Please save/reload as little as possible.)
- Ferdielance
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
I just finished this. Non-spoilery review first, spoilers in the cut.
BP and Blackrune's latest collaboration is a satisfying mystery in the Dickson Carr mold. If you like those, you will almost certainly like this case. There are several clever tricks, and some nasty ones. The rules of fairness are usually preserved, but not always, and when they break apart - as they do near-catastrophically in an early puzzle - the result is not pretty. There is no trolling here on the level of Turnabout of Courage, but expect to have to remember small details for a long time, even from scenes presented out of context and out of order. (And presenting scenes out of order is a fantastic way to make it near-impossible to remember their contents unaided). I suggest playing with a notebook handy and using it.
On the other hand, when the puzzles work, they work fantastically well. One comes about as close as possible to allowing the player to play at being Sherlock Holmes, making a leap in logic that's clued... but just barely. Another involves a really elegant trick that I can't spoil here, and one of the main ones is well-clued, well-presented, and quite smart.
Compared to Turnabout Pairs, this represents a step up from an already impressive trial. The puzzles cohere better, the story gels, and there are far fewer loose ends floating around. Graphics and music are deployed smartly, and no segment goes on longer than it needs to. The writing is much, much punchier than either author's previous work - the dialogue is functional and gets to the point, without excessive meandering. While the characters never get developed as much as they could, adding any more character development would raise the difficulty even more - since it would have the effect of hiding certain needles very deep in a large haystack. In spite of a few moments of genuinely arbitrary difficulty - the odd dicey contradiction - this is the puzzle mystery raised to as high a level as we can ever expect to see, at least until we get another BP/Blackrune collab.
Several places could use post-comp polish, though, in that the player can be heavily penalized for essentially reasonable answers, sometimes heavily, breaking the flow of the game. But the option to retry after losing without reloading the trial turns out to be a lifesaver. I address these logic issues below; all comments from this point on are spoilery.
BP and Blackrune's latest collaboration is a satisfying mystery in the Dickson Carr mold. If you like those, you will almost certainly like this case. There are several clever tricks, and some nasty ones. The rules of fairness are usually preserved, but not always, and when they break apart - as they do near-catastrophically in an early puzzle - the result is not pretty. There is no trolling here on the level of Turnabout of Courage, but expect to have to remember small details for a long time, even from scenes presented out of context and out of order. (And presenting scenes out of order is a fantastic way to make it near-impossible to remember their contents unaided). I suggest playing with a notebook handy and using it.
On the other hand, when the puzzles work, they work fantastically well. One comes about as close as possible to allowing the player to play at being Sherlock Holmes, making a leap in logic that's clued... but just barely. Another involves a really elegant trick that I can't spoil here, and one of the main ones is well-clued, well-presented, and quite smart.
Compared to Turnabout Pairs, this represents a step up from an already impressive trial. The puzzles cohere better, the story gels, and there are far fewer loose ends floating around. Graphics and music are deployed smartly, and no segment goes on longer than it needs to. The writing is much, much punchier than either author's previous work - the dialogue is functional and gets to the point, without excessive meandering. While the characters never get developed as much as they could, adding any more character development would raise the difficulty even more - since it would have the effect of hiding certain needles very deep in a large haystack. In spite of a few moments of genuinely arbitrary difficulty - the odd dicey contradiction - this is the puzzle mystery raised to as high a level as we can ever expect to see, at least until we get another BP/Blackrune collab.
Several places could use post-comp polish, though, in that the player can be heavily penalized for essentially reasonable answers, sometimes heavily, breaking the flow of the game. But the option to retry after losing without reloading the trial turns out to be a lifesaver. I address these logic issues below; all comments from this point on are spoilery.
Spoiler : More comments :
Last edited by Ferdielance on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:26 am, edited 10 times in total.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
- Bad Player
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
Thanks for the review! Glad you liked it... for the most part ^^" TPairs was really focused exclusively on the crime/logic, and while I think TPairs does it slightly better than TSotST, I think TSotST is a lot more "well-rounded" than TPairs. So I'm glad that paid off.
As I said in xat, I agree with a lot of what you point out in the spoiler tag. While there are ways to explain away a lot of the alternate possibilities you present, they definitely deserve acknowledgment on exactly why they're wrong, so we'll definitely add in those conversations soon.
As I said in xat, I agree with a lot of what you point out in the spoiler tag. While there are ways to explain away a lot of the alternate possibilities you present, they definitely deserve acknowledgment on exactly why they're wrong, so we'll definitely add in those conversations soon.
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
Loving the trial thus far, but stuck at
Spoiler : :
- Ferdielance
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
TFLoG:
Spoiler : Hint :
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
Hah, I was just wishing earlier today for some "Carr-styled mysteries" (my own words) similar to Turnabout Pairs (I'm currently reading "Three Coffins", or "The Hollow Man" for you non-Americans, but it's just not the same as playing through it yourself). Funny that this pops up as soon as I log on!
I've never been drawn to the motive or relationship based cases so often relied upon in modern crime procedural novels or television shows, so I'm always excited to see an "impossible" puzzle mystery (or even a possible one, to be honest; it's the puzzle that matters). I'll be sure to play through this as soon as possible!
I've never been drawn to the motive or relationship based cases so often relied upon in modern crime procedural novels or television shows, so I'm always excited to see an "impossible" puzzle mystery (or even a possible one, to be honest; it's the puzzle that matters). I'll be sure to play through this as soon as possible!
Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
You managed to keep me up till 4 AM on a school night. Excellent work, gentlemen. (oh god I've got a paper due first thing and a physics test in a few hours and calculus homework and what am I going to do)
also I'm sorry but once I saw it this was all I could think about
also I'm sorry but once I saw it this was all I could think about
- JackKudos
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
I've tried playing the case in Google Chrome and the case just jumps from one part to another.
Like, one moment I'm at the trial and then suddenly the game jumps to the part about the waitress.
I'm wondering if that's really how it goes or if Google Chrome just messes up the frame progression.
Like, one moment I'm at the trial and then suddenly the game jumps to the part about the waitress.
I'm wondering if that's really how it goes or if Google Chrome just messes up the frame progression.
Why can't life be like and ANIME!?
Also, why aren't there enough murder mystery games in the world!?
Also, why aren't there enough murder mystery games in the world!?
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
I'm stuck
Spoiler : :
- Bad Player
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
wrightattorney wrote:I'm stuck
Spoiler : :
Spoiler : :
Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
Bad Player wrote:wrightattorney wrote:I'm stuck
Spoiler : :Spoiler : :
That was SUCH a big middle finger to us XD, and don't you think the solution is a bit TOO obtuse?
- Bad Player
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
Bad Player wrote:*shrug*
I like your attitude XD
Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
I need help, I can't solve...
Spoiler : :
Last edited by Blizdi on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ●
got passed it after a lucky guess but I'm stuck again. (yeah, I'm usually not good at using logic, suprised I made it this far without a walkthrough)
Spoiler : :