[T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ★

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Reverie
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Reverie »

calvinball wrote:Two Sides of the Same Turnabout anyway(By the way, great name! It makes sense, but it's also not formulaic, which is very nice).
Should've been Two Sides to the Same Turnabout. Then it would've been TSttST, which would've mirrored and been all thematic and stuff.
...Also noticed that the music of this case and PoB actually come from, largely, the same sources, and a lot of the tracks are the same. Was that intentional?

(and is anyone making invisiclues for this?)
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Enthalpy
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Enthalpy »

No, it was just a massive coincidence that greatly amused the makers of both cases.

I'm not planning to make Invisiclues for this.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Bad Player
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Bad Player »

Enthalpy wrote:
Spoiler : Hint 2 :
Ace Attorney games normally tell you who introduced each piece of evidence. If that information was here, this particular puzzle would be much simpler!
Very, very intentional :awesome:
calvinball wrote:
Spoiler : :
But didn't we at one point see Titania and Helene in the same room together anyway? How does this even work?!
Spoiler : :
That's exactly why that's the first flashback, to preempt any crazy "Titania and Helene are the same person!" theories :awesome:

Also, there seems to be some confusion with the timeline. The flight the real Helene mentions is her flight back home to New York. The trip out of the country is something Titania makes up (to take Helene out of the picture while she takes care of the painting), and doesn't come up until a bit later.
calvinball wrote:
Spoiler : ... :
(I'm still peeved by the puzzle where I have to present the MUSEUM fire alarm evidence to talk about the APARTMENT fire alarm evidence. How was I even supposed to know the apartment HAD a fire alarm? THIS puzzle, though, was GOOD. You're given everything. The moment where Titania touches the lighter is even dwelled upon for a long moment, almost to make it obvious... and it still sneaks right under one's nose.
Spoiler : :
1. Because every residence is required by law to have a fire alarm? (Besides, with how obsessed Numa is with security, how could he not let there be fire alarms everywhere?)
2. You were supposed to know to present it the same way you knew to present the APARTMENT picture frame to talk about the MUSEUM picture frame when 'solving' Regina's murder. So you can't complain, it wasn't the first time we pulled that sort of thing~ :awesome:

(Showing the apartment key in the flashback when Cicero didn't talk about it also wasn't the first time we did that... Remember how we showed Henry's meeting with Numa, and then his meeting with Helene in the detention center during Mint's testimony even though she didn't talk about those things?)

The difficulty in TSotST isn't because we don't clue things... It's because we put the clues in places and forms that you don't expect~
calvinball wrote:
Spoiler : Zvarri! :
Next, BadPlayer, I want to say that that was utterly evil. Brilliant as well, but evil. But mostly brilliant. Like, mad genius sort of brilliant, if you know what I mean. I don't know how you even thought of all that. Everything was basically fair (I still don't like the fire alarm thing, but oh well). My one piece of advice would be that failing during the "Helene Allard" rebuttal sends you back to Henry's objection with the apartment key, forcing a player to go through that whole segment again. Should you use a checkpoint system in the future (unnecessary, thanks to V6), I would advise not making the checkpoints so spread out during that crazy-brutal portion of the endgame.

Also, it felt fairlybalanced. I was kind of iffy about the story at first and felt like some things weren't getting explained that well, but I stuck with it and soon the story got as engaging as the puzzles themselves. Kudos on that.
Spoiler : :
Well, let's give Rune his fair share of credit too :wellington:

And that was a specially programmed checkpoint. If we didn't put it in, the system would've sent you a whole 2 or 3 testimonies back instead xP

(PS: To make the "this crime was premeditated, you brought a change of clothes!" argument, you need to present the frame (whose description mentions the ashes of the first set of clothes), not the autopsy report)
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Veleno
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Veleno »

I'm stuck
Spoiler : :
...at the 2nd rebuttal. How did Henry did not get any blood on him during the murder?
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Calvinball
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Calvinball »

This one's tough. Let's go through it step by step:
Spoiler : Step 1 :
First thing to decide: What must Henry have done to show up outside Oberon's apartment without any blood? How many ways can you stab someone to death but then not be bloodied afterward? Don't think about the question in context of the mystery, just think what could you do in general.
Spoiler : Step 1 solution :
There are three ways:
  • Prevent blood from getting on you in the first place.
  • Wash your clothing.
  • Change your clothing.
Spoiler : Step 2 :
Which of these could Henry have done? Think about what evidence was left at the scene of the crime as well as what the crime scene was.
Spoiler : Step 2 hint 1 :
What did you pick? Think about what traces would have to have been left if Henry did that or what traces Henry would have to leave if he tried to cover his tracks.
Spoiler : Step 2 hint 2 :
Is there any evidence we haven't thought much about in the context of Oberon's murder? Anything mentioned in the evidence descriptions that's been glossed over or ignored?
Spoiler : Step 2 hint 3 :
Think about the motive Henry proposed. Since you already proved Titania Immelman was the one who killed Regina Verse, not you, the motive is wrong. If the motive is wrong, though, what evidence now is strange?
Spoiler : Step 2 hint 4 :
The strange evidence has to do with the frame. What about it?
Spoiler : Step 2 hint 5 :
At the scene of Regina Verse's murder, there was a suspicious frame present. The painting had, presumably, burned. Why would there be a frame with ashes at the site of Oberon's murder?
Spoiler : Step 2 hint 6 :
Maybe you thought Henry covered himself with the painting and burned it to get rid of the blood. If you presented that, you found out you were wrong. What else could Henry have done to leave ashes behind?
Spoiler : Step 2 solution :
Henry changed clothes. He brought a change of clothes with him when he went to kill Oberon. After killing Oberon, he undressed and burned the bloody clothing and put on the clean suit he brought.
That's my first attempt at writing hints, so I hope it helped!
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Calvinball »

@BadPlayer: Just wondering, would it be alright if I tried my hand at making Invisiclues for Two Sides of the Same Turnabout, and if I made them, would you edit them or a link to them into the OP?
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
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A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Bad Player »

Don't bother, it's too much fun watching everyone squirm~
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Calvinball
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Calvinball »

Hm... true enough! XD
The score is still Q to 12. Shirley Homes avatar by my Invisible Friend. They're an awesome artist!
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A huge thanks to my Invisible Friend for this AMAZING Shirley Homes art!

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A big thanks to gotMLK7 for this Shirley Homes and Connie Harper art. He is an awesome artist!
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by CeresLiberty »

I come back and there's already a new case by two lovely people for me to check out.

It looks really interesting and I will play it as soon as I can. Then I'll read the thread here lol.
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by PMysterious »

EDIT: I am ashamed to say this, but I am stuck on the first cross-examination. I have tried almost everything and still can't figure it out.
Objection your honor! Jigglypuff is not weak, its just guilty of being too freaking adorable!

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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Bad Player »

PMysterious wrote:EDIT: I am ashamed to say this, but I am stuck on the first cross-examination. I have tried almost everything and still can't figure it out.
Have you gotten the added statement yet?
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by PMysterious »

An added statement can be found? If so, then I'm assuming that you have to press in a certain order (like other Ace Attorney cases)
Objection your honor! Jigglypuff is not weak, its just guilty of being too freaking adorable!

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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Bad Player »

PMysterious wrote:An added statement can be found? If so, then I'm assuming that you have to press in a certain order (like other Ace Attorney cases)
Nope, gotta present a piece of evidence at the right statement~
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by CloudRed1988 »

Spoiler : :
The third Rebuttal against Henry 'My Crime', I'm sad to said, I'm stump.
Last edited by CloudRed1988 on Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [T] Two Sides of the Same Turnabout ☆

Post by Zohar the Shiny »

Put that in spoiler tags, please. We wouldn't want anyone to see something like that before they play, would we?
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