[T] The Empty Turnabout ●

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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Spyromed » Ven Août 01, 2014 3:51 am

Why will nobody bring up Trucy's OoC-ness, am I truly alone? ;-;
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par DWaM » Ven Août 01, 2014 4:19 am

@Chidori__O:

Thanks for playing! Glad you enjoyed it.
Spoiler : :
- (On Apollo's wild theorizing) Yes, Apollo's wild theories are something more suited for a mystery fanatic trying to figure out the culprit before the last page comes, but essentially every theory presents is a last-ditch effort more often than not. Edgeworth does ask for evidence a lot of the time and while Apollo can't actually prove that's exactly what happened, neither can Edgeworth completely prove his case (at least, at the time he does theory X). Neverthless, I don't deny that the judge probably imagined him as a crack addict at some point during the trial.

- (On the unfair penalty) ...But isn't that line of reasoning a lot more complicated and unnecessary? Why would she do that when she could've just thrown the gun into the abyss? She was on the balcony, after all. Putting it on the body is a lot more risky - especially when you consider that the gun was essentially going to end up in the same place (if you were assuming that she was the one who got rid of the body at the time. If not, then planting it on the body gave very little result if it was found on it later...)

- (On mind reading) Well, Adair's mind reading was just an experiment. It was more of a misdirection into making the player think she did it and this was her master plan or something of the sort. Whether it worked or not I guess depends on the person... just as does whether someone liked it or not, I suppose...
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Blackrune » Ven Août 01, 2014 5:20 am

Spoiler : Empty 1 :
I feel like 'corpse' should be an acceptable answer for why they weren't able to do an autopsy. Like, I tried that first. Then victim. I'm guessing the normal answer was body, but yeah.
Spoiler : Empty 3 probably :
Also, I remember the first time I had to point out where the shot came from, I tried pointing out the other balcony. Now of course the game wouldn't let me because that theory is only really brought up much later. The problem here is that... iunno, I don't really see it contradicting anything at that point, at least not more than a random sniper. At that point we have pretty much no definite information about what the defendant did and didn't see, so it's pretty much the same as the sniper theory. And I mean, it struck me as much more likely at that point to click there than the grey area next to the balcony, so I'm fairly sure I won't be the only one who might try that.
I'm not sure if this is fixable, considering you can't really have them accept the theory at that point.
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Bad Player » Ven Août 01, 2014 7:18 am

Spoiler : Empty 1 :
I feel like 'corpse' should be an acceptable answer for why they weren't able to do an autopsy. Like, I tried that first. I'm guessing the normal answer was body, but yeah.
Spoiler : Empty 3 probably :
Also, I remember the first time I had to point out where the shot came from, I tried pointing out the other balcony. Now of course the game wouldn't let me because that theory is only really brought up much later. The problem here is that... iunno, I don't really see it contradicting anything at that point, at least not more than a random sniper. At that point we have pretty much no definite information about what the defendant did and didn't see, so it's pretty much the same as the sniper theory. And I mean, it struck me as much more likely at that point to click there than the grey area next to the balcony, so I'm fairly sure I won't be the only one who might try that.
I'm not sure if this is fixable, considering you can't really have them accept the theory at that point.
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par kwando1313 » Ven Août 01, 2014 7:24 am

wow blackrune, why you double post????

OH WAIT A MINUTE




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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Ferdielance » Ven Août 01, 2014 10:20 am

hmm. Won't review yet, there definitely need to be some fairness fixes here and there - well, in several places. One particularly bad bit let me generate about 10 reasonable answers, only one of which was accepted.

On the ending... my current speculation:

Spoiler : Wild Spec :
Everyone in that house was in on the scheme except for Athena, and even she abetted it a little. It MAY BE that Marston wasn't in on it and his bewilderment on the stand about the contradictions was honest, but that requires some wacky coincidences.

The story begins when Athena got Simon Blackquill's name cleared for the murder of her mother. She thought him innocent, possibly because she (mis)read his heart. Then Simon prosecuted Arts in a massive scandal, and even though Arts got away, the scandal ruined him and left him a recluse. He may have been legitimately guilty!

Those who actually knew the case, however, were not convinced that the whole truth had been found. Mary Adair and Nathaniel Marston realized that something was missing - I don't know what - and kept digging. Meanwhile, Athena eventually realized that Blackquill, whom she'd defended on the stand, really had killed her mother, and killed him in anger. Apollo saved her.

Arts sent out invitations to Adair, Marston, and Blackquill - though Blackquill was dead, so the letter went to Athena instead - to act as a "jury," with his butler present as well. He had reasons for what he did, or perhaps he had been misrepresented. For whatever reason, Adair and possibly Marston decided to acquit him. And to do that, they would fake his death so he could take on a new life. Somehow, Marston felt bad enough about what had been done to Arts to be willing to go to prison to protect this imposture. It is possible - even likely - that Marston did actually shoot at him to complete the illusion; otherwise Apollo would have picked up lies in his testimony.

The vanishing body was, of course, a trick to bring Arts back to life under a new name.

Supporting evidence:

* Arts scrubbed his identity as far as was humanly possible... save for some blood samples, the sort of thing that could be planted at a scene, then doctored a little to make it less obvious that they were planted. This makes sense if he wanted to fake his death, and also if he wanted to take a new identity.

* When Adair talks about the old case, she SEEMS to be suggesting that Arts did something awful. However, she is vague enough that the man who "controlled" events might have been Blackquill.

* It's implied that Athena lied on the stand to protect Blackquill for some reason. If she realized that he really was a murderer or a liar after he adopted her, this would explain... a lot, really.

* Arts always wore a mask. Handy for starting a new life.

* There's no way Arts invited three people over just to KILL him. So what were the three invited for? Some plan, which they were all expected to take part in. Later dialogue seems to confirm that they were all in on it, except for Athena, who is shocked when Marston won't allow her to get a re-trial even if she can "name the culprit."

* This is subtle, but Apollo refers to a "job application" and blood tests when discussing whether or not they arrested "him." My guess is that "him" is Arts, who was finally caught.

* An empty turnabout? One with no actual murder in it? Of course, that the BBC Sherlock series has an episode called "The Empty Hearse" (after the story "The Empty House") that had a faked death in it is probably pure coincidence.

* If Marston wasn't already in on whatever plot was happening, and just "happened" to try to kill the victim when this all went down, and genuinely believed himself to be guilty, there'd have to be a lot of dubious chance events and coincidences in play here.

Problems with this theory:

* APOLLO'S POWER. Given what's involved, he ought to have picked up more lies.

* Psychological implausibility. All over the place. Surely there are better ways to fake a death than willingly going to jail? Or making someone unwillingly go to jail, if Marston wasn't really in on it?


Of course, it isn't wild speculation without BETS, so let me put up some virtual bets here. We'll see if I end up in the positive or the negative. Assume I start out with zero points...

Spoiler : Bets :
The more I bet, the more confident I am:

* Neither the butler, nor Mary Adair, nor Athena Cykes killed the victim. +/- 70 points.

* The "victim" intended to fake his death, at least at some point. +/- 50 points.

* What Adair was hiding from Apollo's power was that she faked the corpse examination. +/- 20 points.

* Blackquill really killed Athena's mother. +/- 20 points.

* The three people invited to the mansion were meant to be a "jury" of sorts. +/- 10 points.

* The job application was filed by the "victim." +/- 10 points.
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Entryhazard » Ven Août 01, 2014 2:53 pm

Blackrune a écrit :
Spoiler : Empty 3 probably :
Also, I remember the first time I had to point out where the shot came from, I tried pointing out the other balcony. Now of course the game wouldn't let me because that theory is only really brought up much later. The problem here is that... iunno, I don't really see it contradicting anything at that point, at least not more than a random sniper. At that point we have pretty much no definite information about what the defendant did and didn't see, so it's pretty much the same as the sniper theory. And I mean, it struck me as much more likely at that point to click there than the grey area next to the balcony, so I'm fairly sure I won't be the only one who might try that.
I'm not sure if this is fixable, considering you can't really have them accept the theory at that point.

Spoiler : explanation :
By that time the killer could have not been on the other balcony because in order to shoot him from that point the victim should have been on the balcony, and the fact that the victim indeed tried to exit from the window is something that was revealed later. In that point of the trial the only plausible scenario was that the killer shot the victom through the window, and that's just not plausible from the other balcony without BENDIN' BULLETS!
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Bad Player » Ven Août 01, 2014 4:35 pm

I also finished my SoC

PS: You have disappointed me, as usual, DWaM
You didn't release it on my birthday
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par DWaM » Ven Août 01, 2014 4:42 pm

YOU NEVER TOLD ME WHEN YOUR BIRTHDAY WAS

YOU JERK

>: (

Spoiler : :
also I didn't ignore IV - it was right after the end of the trial thingy


as for all your other comments, Mr. Rune and BP, I'm gonna say "I'll fix it" then actually get to fixing it 6 months from now

because that's just how true disappointments roll

...

Also, thanks for playing hope you didn't enjoy. <3
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Bad Player » Ven Août 01, 2014 4:52 pm

of all the comments to reply to
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par kwando1313 » Ven Août 01, 2014 4:56 pm

because he has to maintain his true disappointingness




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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par DWaM » Ven Août 01, 2014 4:57 pm

i did it for us, BP

i did it for us

(since all the other stuff is more or less either legit criticism which I can't really argue with or jokes that I'll ruin with responding, so)

...Still, thanks for the SoC. At least it wasn't a complete disappointment, judging by your comments. I mean, since...
Spoiler : Stuph :
It's a case that's about an underlying story that has nothing to do with the crime while 85% is trying to solve that crime.

I tried to do my best with the logic this time around - how much it was actually fair is... up for debate, admittedly (probably not the fairest, though).


Also, as far as theories go, I will eventually give out an answer to some of the still unexplained stuff when I release the doc containing how Chapter 3 was actually supposed to go down but just didn't due to several restrictions (time being a major one).
Dernière édition par DWaM le Ven Août 01, 2014 5:09 pm, édité 1 fois.
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Blizdi » Ven Août 01, 2014 5:06 pm

DWaM a écrit :i did it for us, BP

i did it for us

(since all the other stuff is more or less either legit criticism which I can't really argue with or jokes that I'll ruin with responding, so)

...Still, thanks for the SoC. At least it wasn't a complete disappointment, judging by your comments. I mean, since...
Spoiler : :
It's a case that's about an underlying story that has nothing to do with the crime while 85% is trying to solve that crime.


Next competition: DWaM needs to create a story where everything gets resolved in the end and a majority of the characters end up happy...
:pearlhappy:
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Spyromed » Ven Août 01, 2014 5:13 pm

Blizdi a écrit :Next competition: DWaM needs to create a story where everything gets resolved in the end and a majority of the characters end up happy...
Dernière édition par Spyromed le Jeu Oct 30, 2014 11:48 am, édité 1 fois.
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Re: [T] The Empty Turnabout ● 

Message par Bad Player » Ven Août 01, 2014 5:20 pm

np np

i already got my case about two immortal gods of virtue in an empty void texting each other all planned out
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