Gameboard/General Mystery

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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Sam Oct 31, 2015 10:10 pm

I'm going to take a stab at this.

First, I'd like to share my thoughts on the story itself:
Spoiler : :
The story was pretty well written. I really enjoyed reading it.
What was great was how natural the characters felt. Combine that with the atmosphere
of the von Karma household...you could cut the tension with a blunt spoon. I really understood
the dialogue coming from each character as well as Edgeworth's own thoughts.
I know it's supposed to be a short story, but as far as the writing goes, I think you could
write a really neat (and more drawn out) story involving these characters into a more novel-like format.

But anyway, it was great! :D

Also, just some personal thoughts:
- Wow, those character portraits look great!
- Thought Bernkastel was a little unrealistic with the "letter of apology". But I thought the reprimand otherwise was definitely in-character.
- They eat lunch really, really late.
- Your username is a reference to the Calvin & Hobbes comic by Bill Waterson, right?


And just a few questions:
Spoiler : :
(Although, you may not answer them because they're relevant?)
Why was Kyrie fidgeting at the table? Was she just nervous or for another reason...?
Why was Mrs. von Karma so desperate to see Franziska at that moment?
Why was there a used tea set on the coffee table? (Seems kind of...untidy.)
Why did Beatrice say this towards the end:
“Because killing someone’s sister is evil? You tell me, Edgeworth.”
(I thought this felt out of place and...indicative of something...?)
Battler told us that Edgeworth wandered the manor until 4:30 - 5:30?(I thought this was a bit unclear.)
If so, then he must have fallen asleep from then until 7:00.


Thought process leading to my theory:
Spoiler : :
I'm not going to go through everything that went through my head, but
I'll at least share some conclusions/assumptions I made leading to my theory.

I decided to concentrate on the motive, as opposed to the method. Who could afford to gain
(or lose) by killing Franziska? I'm assuming the killing was not out of pure spite or entertainment.

Next, since it had been a while since Franziska had visited the manor, her presence must be
detrimental to someone's position. One of the people there realized that should Franziska
stay any longer or do something in that library...it would not bode well for them. But this change
would only be brought about by Franziska herself.

And since Franziska has spent time in America...well, I figured it had to be someone who maybe
had criminal ties or something like that in America.

And the only person I could think of was Rudolf. We aren't given much information about Shannon
or Kanon (even though they COULD have connections) but I'm going to assume since it was never
mentioned nor hinted upon, so we don't have to reach that far.

Although, it seemed odd that Edgeworth and Erika had to nap during the afternoon.
Especially for Edgeworth. I thought there might have been something in the food.

Bernkastel is eliminated for being too obvious. Although she is my second choice for a culprit.
Her behaviour was the most odd (but was rather spot-lighted, so I thought it was a red herring)
and I couldn't understand why she was so happy her mother was dying.


And finally, my (99% chance first theory in a long line of theories,
but if I got it right, I'll be very surprised) theory:
Spoiler : :

Who:
Rudolf

How:
Kyrie must have napped like Edgeworth and Erika OR she was simply mistaken about
not hearing or seeing anyone move in or out of the library.
Rudolf just took the opportunity to kill Franziska.

Why:
I think Franziska would have figured something out in her father's old case files.
If she did, then Rudolf's standing would be brought into question.


Also I noticed a typo:
Spoiler : :
“Don’t you remember that Bernkastel asked asked us not disturb Kyrie in her studies?” Edgeworth interjected, set slightly on edge. Erika shrugged off the statement, impassive.
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Lun Nov 09, 2015 1:41 am

Spoiler : @HellPuppy :
Image

Ah, another challenger? Let's see how you hold up under the weight of my red!

It's an interesting theory, and it makes sense given what you know as of now. But here is some truth to dash your hopes!

You mentioned that you think something was put in the food, but Shannon and Kanon prepared and served the luncheon together. Had Rudolf tried to put any drug in it that would cause anyone to sleep, either Shannon or Kanon would've noticed this, and they wouldn't have ignored it!

Furthermore, there is nothing in Manfred von Karma's old case files that would hint at any criminal activity on the part of any of the household members. Manfred would never have allowed Rudolf to take the name von Karma had he known Rudolf was some sort of criminal. The motive doesn't lie in the old case files!


Image

It's a good theory for your first blue truth, but you're far from the mark. How will you find the truth at this rate? Hah hah hah!

Spoiler : Also@HellPuppy :
You'll have to excuse Beatrice. She can be very, ah, melodramatic. It's very nice to hear that you enjoyed the story of the gameboard so much. As for the character portraits, I can take no credit. I stole borrowed them from Umineko no Naku Koro ni, the sound novel from which the red versus blue format originates. And yes, "Calvinball" is a reference to Watterson's oh so wonderful comic strips.

I don't think it would do to answer all your questions (look to the narrative itself and consider what you can see there), but I'll answer two.

Kyrie was fidgeting because she's nine. She has trouble sitting still at the table.

Beatrice said what she said as a potential answer to Edgeworth's questions as to why she was helping him by giving him information about the crime.
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Mer Nov 11, 2015 12:57 am

@Calvinball
Spoiler : Replies in Green. :
You'll have to excuse Beatrice. She can be very, ah, melodramatic. It's very nice to hear that you enjoyed the story of the gameboard so much. As for the character portraits, I can take no credit. I stole borrowed them from Umineko no Naku Koro ni, the sound novel from which the red versus blue format originates. And yes, "Calvinball" is a reference to Watterson's oh so wonderful comic strips.

I had a look at a couple of the earlier posts so I knew what I was getting into. But it's much more fun this way. I didn't spoil myself; I'm still going into this blind. (Also, feel free to be as melodramatic as you like.)

I did a bit of research on Umineko; I had no idea it existed until now. A mystery-anime-visual-novel? Seems pretty interesting, on its own.

I thought so! It's a great strip. (Not sure if that makes me sound old, but I found them one day at my local library.)


Kyrie was fidgeting because she's nine. She has trouble sitting still at the table.

Was she really? Well, Bernkastel had better straighten that out. :wink:

Spoiler : Time for some guessing! :
I probably shouldn't have outright guessed my final answer. Instead, I'll eliminate possibilities.

Statements:

Kyrie and Erika are completely ruled out. But that's pretty obvious.

Kyrie was NOT alert the entire time she was in the library. This means it is possible for someone to sneak in and out of the library.

Kyrie was also not positioned facing the doorway to the library entrance. It would've been far too difficult to get past her. Instead, she must have been facing with her back turned.

Right, so nothing was in the food at lunch. Therefore, Edgeworth fell asleep for a plot device. (Well, we wouldn't have much of a mystery if he was alert and about, would we?)

It's not really clear as to why Franziska is nervous about being there. She may not like her sister very much, but I don't think that's why. It has something to do with her mother.

The door to the private study must have been open at the time of the murder. If it wasn't, Franziska would have likely turned around and could have said something. Kyrie would have heard this (or not). Therefore, Franziska was surprised to have been shot. (Unless the killer is very good at opening doors silently.)

With the door open, it's possible for the killer to have shot her from farther away. The killer wouldn't have to actually go inside the room.

But, Franziska was NOT shot from some crazy distance nor did the bullet pierce a window or through the door.
The killer was at or around the room she was killed in.

To stab one of my own questions: Erika was afraid something was going to happen to Franziska while Franziska was there. Erika must know something about one of the residents that we aren't told. It wasn't to simply tell her about her illness.

Either way, even though the treatment wouldn't have cured her, she must have wanted it to preserve her image of perfection, as the von Karma household stands for.

Questions:

Was Bernkastel and Kanon with each other for the entire hour?

Does 'no accomplices' mean only a single person thought of and committed this crime? Meaning, no one was ordered to kill Franziska? Someone else could benefit from her death, but they didn't cause it.

Going back to Rudolf's questionable deeds to get in Bernkastel's favour, has he ever pulled off an assassination?

All right, that's all for now.
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Mer Nov 11, 2015 7:58 am

Spoiler : @HellPuppy :
Image

Hm... all interesting, but all so piecemeal. Why not give me a theory I can truly sink my teeth into?

Why so sure about Kyrie and Erika? I'm only playing devil's advocate here, but doesn't it seem a little early to rule anyone out when the problem with this mystery is that everyone's been ruled out?

I will use evidence from the narrative to refute your next blues! First: when Bernkastel, Rudolf, and Edgeworth entered the library, Kyrie noticed them almost immediately. I would say that she seemed rather alert, didn't she? Or do you have a reason to think she might not have been alert?

And I'm afraid that the door to the private study was within Kyrie's sight from where she sat in the library. To be more specific, her desk was up against the wall the door was built into and was only a couple feet away from it, with the desk oriented perpendicular to the door. It might sound like an odd set-up, but it's a consequence of certain architectural quirks in the room and Kyrie's own personal preference to not face away from a room.

I might as well tell you that Edgeworth fell asleep naturally. Nothing induced him into sleeping.

I thought it was rather obvious why Franziska was so nervous. You know the von Karmas, yes? Imagine having Manfred von Karma as a father. Now imagine that as defining your childhood and the rest of your family. Wouldn't you be a little nervous to go home after a few years away?

Franziska closed the door to the private study after entering it! Otherwise, she might've disturbed Kyrie's studying.

Hee hee hee... Franziska was shot from inside the private study!

Erika did not expect Franziska to come to harm during her visit to the von Karma manor.

I'm... not sure I understand your last blue statement.
Is this meant to delve into the how, the who, the why...? Could you explain where you're going with it, perhaps?

As for your questions, well, hm... In the rules of the gameboard, I'm only obligated to respond to theories, and even then I prefer to stick to responding to theories that are fleshed out and have some meat to them. I'll see what I can do with your questions, but no promises!

Bernkastel and Kanon certainly claimed to have been with each other the entire time. And there are no accomplices in this murder. I think that answers itself, yes? Unless you've come up with some deviously impossible trick?

There are no accomplices and there is no conspiracy. There is only one culprit and that culprit acted alone!

Goodness, what about Rudolf made you think he was an assassin? I guarantee to you that at least prior to the day of Franziska's murder, Rudolf's never killed anyone. So no assassinations![/color][/b]
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Jeu Nov 12, 2015 1:47 am

@Calvinball
Spoiler : Answering the green questions :
1. Why so sure about Erika & Kyrie?

Kyrie has neither the motive nor means.
Erika does not have a motive. And arguably no means either. I figure her body is kind of weak so her shooting a gun would harm her in some way.


2. Or do you have a reason to think she might not have been alert?

The way I see it, to get to Franziska, it all depends on Kyrie. Kyrie's attention must have either been lost for a certain period of time or she left the room at any point (which ties into my new theory).

3. Is this meant to delve into the how, the who, the why...? Could you explain where you're going with it, perhaps?

Sorry, I guess I was just thinking aloud. Forget that statement.

4. I think that answers itself, yes? Unless you've come up with some deviously impossible trick?

The red truth is fine. I was just thinking whether they would lie or something.


Spoiler : Theory #1 :
From the narrative, Rudolf claims that "Shannon served the tea". Battler later says that "Shannon & Kanon served the tea". Also, Rudolf says everyone had it except "Edgeworth and Franziska". Using this information...

Kyrie left the study for a certain amount of time. For the tea.

The tea was not tampered with since everyone must have had it and Erika was the only one who napped. (I guess.)
Also, Kanon & Shannon may have prepared it together, and since there are no accomplices, the tea was not tampered with.

They probably sent Shannon or Kanon to get Franziska at this time, since they are the servants. Perhaps Erika told them to, which overrides Franziska's authority.

So they shot Franziska and returned to the parlour without her. Everyone assumed that Franziska must simply told them to leave her alone.

IF Shannon did it, her motive would've been...

Revenge of some sort. Even though Erika was dying of some disease, it was neither caused by genetics or old age. She was being slowly poisoned by Shannon's cooking. Shannon wanted Erika dead for some reason. As for the poison, it must be something super special, since only a bone marrow transplant can fight it for whatever reason.

Since Franziska may be a possible match, Shannon decided to kill Franziska to prevent any chance of being cured.

IF Kanon did it, his motive would've been...
Well, I wonder what 'business' he was conducting with Bernkastel. I'm going to guess perhaps it was regarding Manfred's will. Perhaps he had something to gain from killing Franziska in that will.

Of course, he could do the food-poisoning thing I mentioned for Shannon's motive.

Alternate motive:
Franziska was a prosecutor in Germany. She may have put someone either of these two cared about away in jail. But why they waited until today to deliver their revenge is beyond me.

*Originally entitled Theory #2
Spoiler : Greatest Theory in the Universe :
Who: Shannon

How:
Using her hidden psycho-telekinetic powers, Shannon instantly warped into the room where Franziska was and shot her.

She warped back out into the kitchen, but realized she was still holding the gun. After cleaning the gun off in the kitchen sink, she warped back in and placed the gun on the floor next to the body.

Why:
While in America, Franziska learned of a superhuman-engineering program developed by the Americans. She learned that Shannon was one of their first test subjects. But the experiment seemed to have gone wrong, as it resulted in an explosion, nearly killing Shannon. Shannon disappeared on her own accord after this and no one knew where she went. She ended up serving the von Karmas several years later.

Franziska decided to join the FBI as a secret agent, in order to boost her reputation against Bernkastel. After all, being a peerless prosecutor in America didn't have quite the same status as being one in Germany.

She was tasked with finding Shannon and had to devise a plan in order to get close to her. However, she couldn't just show up at her old house unannounced, since it would look far too suspicious.

But to her luck, her sister contacted her about her mother wanting to see her. This was her chance to complete her mission.

However, she was still quite nervous coming back to the manor since it reminded her of her less-than-stellar childhood. She wanted to tell the other members there about Shannon but she just couldn't bring herself to do it. Even worse was the idea of Bernkastel making further mockery of her.

Somehow, Shannon had developed the ability to read minds (time must have allowed her to develop more abilities), so she glanced at Franziska's memories and learned of her mission. She knew that sooner or later, Franziska would have to die.
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Jeu Nov 12, 2015 6:37 am

Spoiler : @HellPuppy :
Image

Interesting, very interesting. I'm afraid that Erika did not lack the strength to fire a gun at the time of the murder, though this doesn't address matters of motive or how she got past Kyrie, does it? Speaking of, you're rather focused on her as being the linchpin of this locked room. Very sensible! Find a way past Kyrie, and you find a way into the room; however, I'm afraid you've underestimated Kyrie's dedication to her studies!

Kyrie never left her desk in the library from the time she started studying after lunch to the she left with Edgeworth, Erika, and Rudolf. Besides, don't you think someone would've mentioned this to the police had it happened? Would've solved the locked room probably fairly quickly!

No one ordered Kanon or Shannon to interrupt Franziska while she was in the private study.

Erika's terminal illness is natural and doesn't originate from any toxin or poison, synthetic, organic, or somehow otherwise.

Manfred von Karma's will was executed long ago and has no bearing on the culprit's motive.

No one close to either Shannon or Kanon was ever prosecuted by a von Karma.


I'd say that rather thoroughly breaks your theory; wouldn't you?
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Jeu Nov 12, 2015 6:20 pm

@Calvinball
Spoiler : Lots of black, little blue :
Yeah, I'm trying to break Kyrie's word. She's literally a human security camera at this point. Always alert, watchful...etc.

So how does one get past a security camera? The only solution to this is: it must be turned off.

Since Kyrie never left her desk for any reason...

Therefore...Kyrie's attention must have been diverted sitting at that desk.

But other than her sense of sight, there's also the problem of her hearing.

She didn't hear the door to Franziska's study opening...nor did she hear anyone walking up and down the stairs. How is that possible? I'm going to assume the library is not so impossibly vast that little sounds get unnoticed.

It's because of this reason that I think Kyrie must have been drugged or fallen asleep.

But the matter becomes when and how. Now IF Kyrie was fed anything from the interval of 6 - 7, I think she would have said so. Kanon couldn't have offered Kyrie anything since he was off with Bernkastel. So it had to have been Shannon who offered Kyrie something. But the problem with that is Kyrie could either be lying about falling asleep for fear of punishment or it never happened at all. It would have also looked too suspicious if anyone personally visited Kyrie during her study time. Kyrie would have also mentioned something like "oh yeah, around 6 to 7, person X offered me a cookie".

So, I'm going to have to go with: Kyrie fell asleep on her own accord and lied about doing so.

Evidence for this was her drowsiness at lunch. I can't see a nine year-old being tired at 3:00 in the afternoon.

Let's move on from that. With Kyrie asleep at some point, unable to see or hear anything, now it opens up the possibility of someone going into the library.

Bernkastel and Kanon could not have committed the murder since they were in each others company for the whole time. I guess one of them could have made an excuse to leave for whatever reason, but I'm going to take the red truth at face value. They never parted from each other. So, they are excluded as suspects.

That leaves only two people: Rudolf and Shannon. (I'm still ruling out Erika. I'm dead sure she didn't do it due to a lack of motive, even if she could have fired the gun.)

Both of them have very shaky alibis. No one knew what the they were doing after tea time. So either one of them could have gone in and shot Franziska.

From this point, I think it comes down to motive.

And...this is where I have almost no clue. I already explored the possibility of Rudolf's questionable past being a factor and I practically have nothing to say about Shannon.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be anything in the narrative which implies any sort of danger to Franziska personally, by either of these two. So, Franziska was not killed because she knew something, or she committed some grievance against these two in the past.

So, what does Franziska's death mean? Well, there are multiple reasons.

Edgeworth and Kyrie lose somebody important to them. Erika loses a possible donor. No idea what Kanon has to lose by the death and Bernkastel doesn't seem to lose anything. (This is probably a happy coincidence for her.)

So why would Shannon or Rudolf kill Franziska to make the others lose something? But for that, I think we'll have to delve into what connects these two with everyone else.

Let's start with Shannon first.
Shannon is...just a servant. I don't see any (auxiliary) connections between her and everyone else. She was servant for quite a while, possibly as long as Kanon. Therefore, she knew Edgeworth, Franziska, Bernkastel and Erika for a long time. I'm sure, along with Kanon, they're all one big extended family (whatever 'family' really means in the von Karma household). You said that no one close to Kanon and Shannon were prosecuted against by a von Karma so I'm going to assume that extends to Edgeworth as well. Unless Shannon somehow was treated very poorly by one of these persons to the point where she would take revenge upon Franziska...then I don't know.

I don't know anything about Shannon's past either. So she has anxiety attacks. Well, I guess working for the von Karmas isn't exactly an easy job. But I guess she works well enough that she gets to stay. Other than that, there really doesn't seem to be anything special about her. I'm not sure if she hates Kyrie for some odd reason. But I think only those who hate Bernkastel or Rudolf would hate Kyrie by extension.

As for Shannon and Rudolf's connection...well, Rudolf himself doesn't seem to have a connection with Franziska other than being an in-law. I can't see anything here.

I was picking on Rudolf from the start because we're given a little more information about his past and his current standing among the other members of the household.

But, according to the red truths, there doesn't seem to be any reason for Rudolf to kill Franziska to harm another person's standing either. Unless he wanted to please his wife and hurt his child at the same time. Rudolf also doesn't seem to have a connection with everyone else. He's an outsider, but killing Franziska wouldn't really gain him any favour or standing. There just doesn't seem to be anything.

Anyway, I think the strongest reason for Franziska's death was to harm Erika, more than anyone else. But according to Battler, the transplant would've only purchased time, not a cure. So...killing Franziska is nearly meaningless unless someone thought the transplants were a cure. But why would they want Erika dead? She's fairly old anyway, right? Couldn't they just wait for her to die naturally? Maybe Erika has a will that is important? Does she know something?

And that's all for now...
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Ven Nov 13, 2015 12:13 am

Spoiler : @HellPuppy :
Image

Seeing your thought process in the black text is quite fascinating; thank you for sharing it. Unfortunately, while it may be fascinating, it won't survive my red!

Kyrie would not fall asleep from simple weariness. She fears Bernkastel's wrath too much and would power through any weariness.

And... that's about it, right? Your earlier blues seemed to mostly just lead up to this, and your three blues at the end seem best left to your own judgment, unless it becomes pivotal to a theory.

The motive is tricky. While I've found that the howdunnit tends to end up answering itself, the whydunnit truly is the most difficult part of the gameboard to uncover. To honor your efforts thus far and try to aid you in finding the truth behind our killer's motive, I will give you this red: If Erika receives bone marrow transplants from a matching donor regularly, she will live for several more years. If she does not, she will live for, at best, a few more months. You now see the difference, do you not?
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Ven Nov 13, 2015 4:10 am

@Calvinball

Spoiler : Hope you don't mind more black, with a little more blue :
(Honestly, writing out my thoughts helps my conclusions. Also, I think it may help you to see how exactly I came about concluding X blue quote.)

So, Kyrie can power through any weariness, huh? Probably the von Karma blood in her...

So:

She couldn't have fallen asleep.
She wasn't so weary that no one could slip by her unnoticed.
She never left the desk.

Then, Kyrie must have been drugged. There is literally no other explanation.

But once again, the problem is who, how and where...

Kyrie had lunch with everyone else. The lunch wasn't drugged.
Kyrie wasn't there for tea time. If someone brought something to her, she would have said so.
Bernkastel would not have allowed anyone to visit Kyrie anyway.

How could she have eaten something...? Wait, she doesn't necessarily have to!

Kyrie was tranquilized. There must be a tranquilizer gun somewhere in the manor.

If Kyrie was not shot with a tranquilizer gun, then...

Kyrie must require medication for some illness. Kyrie knows she's supposed to take this particular medication every hour (or two). Someone could have swapped this medication with something else.

Actually, this second suggestion might make sense since:

Bernkastel doesn't seem to think much of Kyrie. (At least, that's what I think.) Kyrie must suffer from some sort of ailment which mars her "perfect" status. Therefore, Kyrie must require medicine of some form.

Other than solving the "How to Make Kyrie Unconscious Problem", I'll assert:

The killer simply walked in and shot Franziska. There was no struggle, no sounds. The killer cleaned and left the gun on the floor and went on their merry way. (Or they could wear gloves.)

There was no special method or technique used to kill Franziska.


So I think that concludes the HOW portion of my theory.

Now onto the WHY ( :tigre: ):

Now it seems pretty clear that the real intended target of misfortune was Erika, due to that red truth.

I'll just reiterate what is now known:

- Bernkastel & Kyrie are not matches.
- Franziska might be a possible match.
- The donor has to be alive.
- Erika now only has months to live, basically, with the last possible choice dead.

So, someone killed Franziska to prevent Erika from living several more years. But how did they know Franziska was a match...?

The culprit must have access to Franziska's medical records in some form. They MUST have known Franziska was a possible match!

Wait...but then again, why didn't they just kill Erika herself?

Why would they decide to kill Franziska when they could have easily killed Erika...? Why go through the trouble of committing a seemingly unnecessary murder...? Do they want Erika dead or...?

(This is literally my mind at this point.)
...
...
...
...
...
...

*ding*

Oh, I've got it!


The culprit wants her to live, but not be cured! Therefore, the culprit wants Erika to suffer under the disease until she dies. (Wow, that's brutal.)

I'm assuming that the transplant will aid Erika greatly, perhaps lessen the pain and other symptoms. Battler even said that the disease will only become more aggravating as time passes on.

This further supports the blue quote I made just before this one. The culprit must have known about the medical records so they would know for sure that killing Franziska would definitely prevent any treatment.

To me, that's the only reason that makes sense, so I'll try to run with it.

Now the question is: "Who wants Erika to suffer?"

Kyrie, obviously I'm still going to assert Rudolf or Shannon had the means so they are the only ones who also have the motive I described above.

Why does Rudolf want Erika to suffer?

This kind of goes back to my very first idea. Rudolf must be after something to boost his reputation. There must be something to be gained from letting Erika suffer. Hey, perhaps Rudolf sees it as his chance to get in her favour regarding her eventual will. Help the old sickly lady, get her estate (and other shiny things).

Rudolf wants Erika sick so he can 'help' her. Eventually, she'll cave in and put Rudolf as a great beneficiary in her will.

Why does Shannon want Erika to suffer?

Shannon suffers from anxiety attacks. As far as I know, anxiety attacks could stem from past bad work experiences, such as being grossly ridiculed, physical punishment, directed anger...I mean, come on, she had to serve BOTH Franziska and Bernkastel! On top of which, she was to perform perfectly for the heads of the households.

Shannon is a (VERY) disgruntled employee. After years of servitude which has damaged her psychologically, she finally decides she can't take it anymore. She decides to take revenge on the head of the house: Erika. *Edited: (She fulfills two things: Killing Franziska, whom she served formally, and gets to watch Erika suffer.) Given the choice, Shannon would love to kill just about everyone in that house as well. (Sounds brutal, but hey, some people are crazy/have horrible bosses.)

I think I finally see a tiny light at the end of this (amazing) tunnel.
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Dim Nov 29, 2015 5:52 am

Spoiler : OOC :
Apologies for the inactivity on the gameboard; I'll try to reply sometime this week. I'm afraid I've been very scatterbrained about a few important things.
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Dim Nov 29, 2015 9:53 pm

@Calvinball

Hey, don't worry about it. This should be a hobby for fun, not a job, right? :wink:

I've been pretty busy myself due to school so my free time to work on things here (trial-making) has been diminished. Please don't feel pressured to respond.

However, don't think that I've lost interest in this.

Spoiler : My Ultimate Goal :
I intend to prove without a doubt that Edgeworth and Kyrie conspired together to commit this murder.

And if I may...

Spoiler : Also @BeatricevonKarma :
I see my last rebuttal has completely baffled you into silence!

......Although, whether that is because my stupidity has reached boundaries thought impossible to attain or I'm on the right track is not clear......
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Sam Déc 26, 2015 7:18 pm

Spoiler : @HellPuppy :
Image

You first have my apologies for the lateness of my response... I'm afraid I have consistently forgotten to come and speak the red truth.

Image

But now I am here, and now we can continue our game! I see you have your blue truths - let us test them under the weight of my red!

If Kyrie was drugged, how was she drugged? A winning answer must be thorough, so I am willing to simply leave that blue truth unanswered until it has a bit more meat to it. I will say that there was no tranquilizer gun in the manor on the day of the murder. Don't you think Detective Battler and his crew would've found it if there was one?

Kyrie takes no medication for any illness!

I will concede that there was nothing special about the act of killing Franziska. The culprit entered the private study, shot her, cleaned the gun, left the gun, left the study, and closed the door.

No one knew if Franziska was a match to Erika as a bone marrow donor yet! After all, she hasn't yet been administered a test by a doctor, correct?

The culprit wanting to make Erika suffer is sufficient explanation for why Erika was not killed directly. You've finished off that part of the puzzle now, congrat!

The motive has nothing to do with Erika's will.

Simply being disgruntled with an employer is not the motive of this crime.


Image

Hm... I'll give you a tip. My advice would be to first focus on solving the WHO and HOW. The HOW will answer the WHO pretty handily. Then I'll give you one major hint about the WHY. When I tell it to you, you might then understand why I wanted to wait to tell it to you until later, hee hee hee...
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par HellPuppy » Ven Jan 01, 2016 3:48 pm

@Calvinball

Spoiler : :
Hey, thanks for the reply, and Happy New Years! (If it still happens to be applicable for you.)

But I have a confession to make. I was having trouble figuring this mystery out, and curiosity got the better of me, so I ended up looking at what other people posted about this.

Specifically, I ended up reading Ferdielance's posts and your replies. So, even though there doesn't seem to be one specific true theory, I know too much to make my own guesses, as far as the information from Ferdielance will let me. Ferdielance also seems to be the only person who's solved this crime in entirety.

I can see I was on the right track (what with Erika suffering and all), but what became a huge brick wall was figuring out just WHY Shannon would want Erika dead. I read your last post, so I'm (pretty much) out of ideas as to why Rudolf could have done it.

Anyway, I have a few things to say about the solution. They're basically criticisms, but I feel they're fair. If they're not fair at all and I'm just blind, then well, I'm dumb.

Two major facts that surprised me from reading the other posts was: Shannon is Erika's secret daughter and that she's mute, which is her birth defect.

I kind of feel that both facts were a bit...difficult to conceive, just by using the narrative. I'm not sure if they're absolutely necessary in order to solve the crime (although it is a strong possibility) but I just can't see anyone coming to those conclusions on their own. (Then again, I might just be extremely unimaginative or I'm not playing this game the right way.)

For one, I felt there was a lack of evidence to show any sort of relationship between Erika and Shannon. If a compliment from Erika is enough for one to conclude that Shannon is her secret daughter then...well, I'm exaggerating this a bit, but that's how the revelation felt to me. It wasn't an: Aha, that must be it! It felt like a: What the heck? How was I supposed to see that?

Same with Shannon being mute. I could buy the story of the household being strict to the point that servants aren't even allowed to talk. I think it's plausible, but having this rule just to hide the fact that a single person is mute? I think that stretches things a bit.

Even though it was said that Erika could have had childbirth complications, I don't think that's enough for one to conclude she had a child with a birth defect. I don't think we're told how much the disease affected her at the time she had Shannon, and Bernkastel and Franziska seem to have turned out just fine.

Finally, if Shannon drugged Kyrie with tea, then wouldn't Kyrie have said something about meeting Shannon when she was questioned? Instead, we're left to believe Kyrie had zero interactions with any of the members while sitting at the desk, which she never left even once. Unless Kyrie forgot about this particular interaction, perhaps due to the drug she was administered, then I suppose that's plausible, but otherwise I feel that it's impossible to prove Kyrie's attention was never diverted during the whole evening.

In summary, I think figuring out Shannon's secret origin required one to take a completely random shot in the dark, hoping it makes a hit. But to make that particular shot, I think it also required a leap in logic, something that is completely outside the narrative, save a couple of sentences. I also think Kyrie should not lie in this story. Even if she's scared of what her mother will say, she's also still a kid, and I don't think kids are good liars. In questioning, I think it would be easy for Battler to find out that Kyrie did in fact meet one other person that evening.

Despite my criticisms, I still had fun figuring things out from my uh...subset of solutions which I derived from the narrative (not sure how to correctly put this, but I hope you understand what I mean).
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Re: Gameboard/General Mystery 

Message par Calvinball » Sam Jan 02, 2016 11:14 am

Spoiler : @HellPupp :
I cannot deny the validity of your criticism. In truth, my mystery relies too much on the red truth to be fair.

You are right that Shannon's motivation is impossible to glean from the narrative. Much reflection and observation of the detectives (readers) trying to solve the mystery has taught me that after all this time. I thought that being able to use the red truth to slowly eliminate possibilities would help. For example, for the killer to know about Erika's illness only for Erika to also need a reason to tell Shannon sort of leads to the conclusion of relation... but not quite. Bernkastel and Franziska turning out apparently okay does throw a spanner in that idea. Basically, I cannot deny it: the mystery had too few clues, and it was incredible how far everyone got. Those who solved it (there was more than Ferdielance, I believe. My beta-reader solved it as well) deserve even more kudos.

As for Kyrie, I don't think there isn't strictly anything that Battler says that actually explicitly rules out Shannon giving Kyrie tea. It's important to note that what he tells Edgeworth is a generalization. Battler says that Shannon and Kanon served to to "everyone," and Rudolf says the same. While it is never specifically described how Shannon goes to Kyrie all the way in the library, Kyrie never lied and Battler never says she doesn't get the tea. He says it's served to "everyone." So while the way things are said is obfuscatory, I don't think Shannon drugging Kyrie with the tea is necessarily an unfair part of the mystery. It helps that everything else about the crime necessitates that this be the truth. It's the one bit that I think I can still feel proud of after all this time.


@All: I think it's time my gameboard is wrapped up. I will no longer respond to players trying to solve the board. It's about time someone else take the mantle of gamemaster anyway.
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