Redoing the player in Flash

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Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par henke37 » Mer Mars 04, 2009 10:12 pm

I thought that instead of me going around in each topic and mentioning my feelings, I should just centralize them to a separate topic.

First of all, I want to give some big thanks to the existing developers. You've done a great job, have a pat on the back.
I fully respect your work and absolutely do not want to insult neither you nor the work.

But I still feel that Flash could be used to enhance the player.

I know that not a single thing I am going to mention is impossible to to in JavaScript, however, I believe that it could be done easier and better.

Well, to start off, the existing work would have to be redone. And the existing trials obviously should not be lost, so it has to either use the same dataformat, or a converter.

Now, why do I suggest this? I believe that Flash has better rendering performance and better features than JavaScript. JavaScript mainly interacts with the DOM. However, the JavaScript DOM is hyper text based. And not just that, it is mainly block based.

Another advantage of Flash is the centralization, I have not even tried to reverse engineer the current engine (clear lie, I tried, I gave up after 2 min), but I do imagine that the engine is quite messy since it has to manipulate the DOM and the sound player.

Also, I did hear that the audio player is a hidden Flash movie. Moving the rest to a Flash Movie too would be a nice way of keeping stuff together.

Some features that Flash has that I believe that the player could use is:
  • The better layering, Flash can layer objects with ease.
  • The ability to design while looking at what you are making. It's OK, since there is no markup code generated. Just the raw shape data.
  • It supports video, something that most definitely could be fun.
  • It does vector graphics. Full screen with no pixelation? That would be very desirable.
  • It has smooth animation playback. The current player doesn't exactly have this.
  • Flash is supported in 99% of all browsers. Not even JavaScript has such a high compability rate.
  • Flash has graphical filters and rendering modes.
  • Flash does not need bloated HTML for the trials to run. You can use a custom compact format. Or good old huge, but easy to edit, XML.
  • Flash supports text formating by some crude HTML.
  • With libraries such as Papervision 3D, it can do 3D rendering. That 3d examination stuff sure was a nice break from the main gameplay where it was used.
  • Flash provides excellent interactivity options to duplicate the examination minigames.
    • Yup, blow off all that powder, Flash can read the microphone. And it's fast enough to animate each of the particles while you are doing it.
    • That xray machine? Easy to do with the BittmapData class.
    • The shoe printing would also be fairly possible, Flash can create visible shapes at runtime. Or you could just mask some circles. Either way works
    • The mixing board? Yup, that's possible.

Again, I am fully aware of the enormous work a rewrite would be, even if it's always easier the second time. I do respect that this is not something that people are being paid for to work on and I don't expect people to just say "OK, it's done".

But even with all this work, I still believe that this is the future.

I am ready to help out with the development if needed to, but I just don't have the time to do it alone. Also, I most definitely don't have all the experience the existing developers have with the existing design.

Hoping that I didn't insult anyone or otherwise cause trouble, a new guy.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Meph » Mer Mars 04, 2009 10:29 pm

That's an interesting idea. Perhaps you should take a look at this? :)

http://www.gyakutenwiki.net/w/CourtEngine

By the way, there are some points that I should mention:

1. JavaScript is an internet standard. The few browsers that do not support it are poorly designed and not standards compliant.
2. AAO will support video within the next month.
3. Ace Attorney games would not work in full screen. All the sprites would not look good as vectors.
4. It is true that there are some sprite problems, but they will be fixed in the future.

This is a good idea to consider in the future. There might be easier alternatives however, such as Microsoft Silverlight, which is XML based rather than Flash which can only be made using Flash Pro.
Dernière édition par Meph le Mer Mars 04, 2009 10:37 pm, édité 2 fois.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Ami » Mer Mars 04, 2009 10:30 pm

I forget why, but Unas said something about this being on very, very low priority, if even that.

I know it's a great idea, but idk if it would ever be implemented.

CUT: Huh, never saw that before.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par henke37 » Jeu Mars 05, 2009 8:10 am

It is true that the SWF format can practically only be made in Flash, but there is always the technical possibility of using another application to do it.

About the sprites, that is true. Sprites does not scale well, however, if anybody where to redraw the characters in Flash, not like that is going to happen, it would scale very well in Flash.

About Silverlight, I do not care for it. If it as you say, XML based, then it's using a bloated format. XML is bloated, period. And the facts remain, Flash is very widely supported, Silverlight not so.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Unas » Jeu Mars 05, 2009 2:55 pm

Meph a écrit :2. AAO will support video within the next months

Fixed :P
I already said it would have to wait several months, perhaps until summer, before I have time to work on v4.1.


Now henke, to answer your question : I am aware that Flash would be the most efficient way of recreating a game, as this is not JS's original purpose. I know that JS is limited.:wink:


I'd be glad to make a Flash case player... But I can't.

First, because I don't know anything about programming in Flash. I don't know how to create graphics, how to use actionscript, etc. I'd have to learn everything. I already hardly have enough time to work on AAO, so adding to it the need to learn everything again... That's just not possible for me right now.

Second, because to create Flash animations you have to use Adobe Flash MX, that costs a lot and - as far as I know - doesn't exist on Linux. Unfortunately, I'm not very rich, and I'm running Linux. Two technical reasons... I may use something as http://haxe.org/doc/intro that can compile flash content, but it's still another programming language that I'd have to learn. So not possible right now.

Anyway, I'd love it if someone here could reproduce the player in Flash, but I can't work on it myself currently, and I don't have time to explain the whole AAO script - which isn't commented much, and in French anyway - to anyone.
So except if you or anyone else finds the courage to go retro-engineering the whole game script, it won't happen any time soon :P
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par henke37 » Jeu Mars 05, 2009 6:31 pm

Yeah, I do see your point about having to learn a new language. While actionscript 3 is very javascript like and sane, it is still a new thing to learn.

Btw, Adobe never released any Flash Mx, they have only used the CS brand for Flash since they bought Macromedia.

And yeah, having the code in French sure limits the amount of people that can do the reverse engineering. Sure, you'd guess a lot of the language, but it's still an obstacle. One that I have no time to work on.

Well, at least I got to went my feelings in one place where we could have a civil discussion, instead of me just going posting crazy and spamming lots of topics with the idea. It would likely have lead to the same conclusion, but with me causing a lot of unneeded trouble.

So I guess we can agree that if someone started paying for a new player, Flash would be a likely candidate. But that's not reality.

Btw, if anyone wants a helping hand in doing any kind of Flash, do contact me, I usually hang around in ##flash on the IRC network freenode.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Meph » Jeu Mars 05, 2009 6:57 pm

I have Flash 8. It's just a shame that I can't code either (nor can I make animations in it :p).
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par henke37 » Jeu Mars 05, 2009 7:10 pm

Here is my advice, get at least CS 3, so that you get access to ActionScript 3, it is an major upgrade from the old ActionScript 2 language. It's faster, got access to stuff as 2 does not, saner and other positive things about it that as 2 lacks.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Meph » Jeu Mars 05, 2009 8:46 pm

I can't. I don't own a money tree. :(
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par henke37 » Sam Juin 19, 2010 5:56 pm

So, there is a student discount on Flash. Maybe Unas qualifies?
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Meph » Sam Juin 19, 2010 10:31 pm

Canvas is free and easier to learn.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par henke37 » Sam Juin 19, 2010 10:48 pm

Canvas is not even finished, so there can't be much learning material. Flash on the other hand comes with the equivalent of multiple books in terms of help files. And that is not counting the loads of tutorials online and actual books that you can throw at people.

As for the cost, some stuff simply costs if you want quality. And the compiler is 100 % free. Grab a plugin for your favorite code editor and start coding, no money required. There are even multiple editors dedicated to actionscript (such as Flex Flash builder and Flash develop.

I believe this takes care of both of your concerns.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Meph » Sam Juin 19, 2010 11:34 pm

If we use canvas, we're future-proof. Unas has made his mind up, anyway.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Broocevelt » Dim Juin 20, 2010 12:35 am

But... What are the features that Canvas has, that Flash Player hasn't? (POsitive features)
Just a question.
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Re: Redoing the player in Flash 

Message par Singapore123 » Dim Juin 20, 2010 9:03 am

Well, henke, if you think you're good then try making one!
I would like to see a template.
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