Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide!

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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Hodou Okappa » Jeu Oct 14, 2010 4:56 am

I avoided Ini just because I don't really know enough about her. I never played the second game, after all. It was difficult enough to write about Franziska.
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par FenrirDarkWolf » Jeu Oct 14, 2010 4:59 am

Ahh, I see.
Spoiler : :
Well I think she could be a good character to use, as she's just a normal collage girl, but that's opinion.
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par mAc Chaos » Jeu Oct 14, 2010 5:11 am

Hodou Masaka a écrit :I avoided Ini just because I don't really know enough about her. I never played the second game, after all. It was difficult enough to write about Franziska.

You're totally missing out.
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Mimi » Jeu Oct 14, 2010 5:17 am

Very much indeed.

By the way, is the crime section being postponed due to personal issues with your life?
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Hodou Okappa » Jeu Oct 14, 2010 10:22 pm

As with everything else I'm supposed to do, yes. :(
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par SwagmaWampyr » Jeu Oct 14, 2010 11:29 pm

Not to threadjack, but would you like me to write a brief section on crimes, as a bit of an add-on to whatever you're going to type?
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Hodou Okappa » Ven Oct 15, 2010 12:37 pm

...If you wanted to. It wouldn't technically be part of the guide though.
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Re: Guide: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Jean Of mArc » Jeu Jan 06, 2011 6:57 am

I know this has been around for a while, but I just got around to knowing it existed and reading it... great work!! I like how it focuses a lot on the story, an often over-looked part of mysteries (in favour of clues, deductions and close-calls).
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Mimi » Mar Sep 06, 2011 9:23 pm

Not to bug you or anything, but will anything new be added any time soon? :maya: I really liked this guide...
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Esrom » Lun Juin 18, 2012 7:49 pm

I love this guide. You have great insights into the major characters and the canon, and a good sense of writing style.

I think I can help a little by giving some more examples.

Hodou Okappa a écrit :
WITNESSES and MINOR CHARACTERS
Spoiler : :
When it comes to choosing your witnesses and minor characters, there are two ways to go about it -- using canon characters, and using original ones. If you're using canon characters, keep in mind that not only will you have to study their character a little bit so you can write for them properly, but also that you need to come up with a logical explanation for why they're involved. There are some characters, like Maggey Byrde, who could reasonably be anywhere at any time. On the other hand, if you make Morgan Fey the head chef at Tres Bien, people are not going to take you seriously.

Morgan
"How dare you insult my cooking!"


Indeed. Some characters' presence is easier to explain than others.

Spoiler : :
Of course, if the investigation portion involves being at an event where the press is involved, it'd be easy to bring in Lotta Hart and/or Spark Brushel. Lotta is especially good to use after 2-2 in canon, where she switches her specialty from paranormal photography to celebrity photography and gossip.

Of course, one good guideline to follow is that whichever characters you use, they should contribute something to the story. Whether they testify later during the trial portions of the case, give some evidence or information that will prove important later, or both, their presence in the story should be justified. While characters such as the ones I mentioned are good for comic relief, comic relief shouldn't be their only contribution to the case.


Hodou Okappa a écrit :
Spoiler : :
When it comes to original characters, you have more freedom with how you can use them. If you can come up with (good!) custom sprites, you can just go crazy wherever and nobody will care. But unlike with lawyers, it's completely forgivable to use pre-existing sprites for these characters as well. Here you run into a problem, though. The temptation will be to pick the character that best reflects your OCs personality; if you do this, however, people may feel your character is too much like the existing one, which can completely ruin their chances of being likeable. If you're lucky, you'll be able to find a sprite that fits the role appearance-wise and still has great animations for your character, but all in all it's a tricky prospect. If you can't find one that works without being too similar, I highly recommend going to the Your Art board and asking somebody there for help with custom sprites.

Some Ace Attorney sprites I would never use for original characters due to their personalities/ridiculousness: April May, Diego Armando, Mia Fey, Ema Skye, Mike Meekins, Jake Marshall, Damon Gant (a very popular pick that I disagree with,) anybody from Turnabout Big Top, Matt Engarde, Shelly de Killer, Dahlia, Luke Atmey, Ron DeLite, Jean Armstrong, Lisa Basil, Bikini, Iris, Elise Deauxnim, Olga Orly (only the first outfit,) Wesley Stickler, Lamiroir/Thalassa, Machi, Daryan Crescend, Valant Gramarye, Zak Gramarye.


Spoiler : :
Tend to agree with you for most of them, there. These characters either have a lot of personality baggage or otherwise have certain quirks that'd be hard to use for anyone other than the canon characters.

I tend to see most of those characters as unique, and find it hard to suspend enough disbelief to think there are other people in the Ace Attorney-verse with the exact same looks or mannerisms. Anyone who looks like Jake Marshall but isn't Jake Marshall must be a Jake Marshall fanboy or something. Ditto for the Gramaryes, Luke Atmey, Daryan, and just about anyone from Turnabout Big Top. I'd add Spark Brushel to the list of characters whose sprites I'd ONLY use as the canon characters and never as OCs, as I can't imagine anyone else with his visual mannerisms, either.

The only time Luke Atmey being used for an OC worked for me was Koopakirby's Ray Viewell character in 'Reinstate the Turnabout' and 'Turnabout Dependency', but that character was also an over-the-top narcissist and I'm still waiting for Koopakirby to reveal that he and Atmey are related or he's a Luke Atmey fanboy, or something.


Hodou Okappa a écrit :
Spoiler : :
Some good choices: Any character that is unimportant or dies early on is a great choice. I'd recommend Redd White (rich man,) Will Powers (normal man, tough guy,) Penny Nichols (teenage girl,) Cody Hackins (young boy,) Sal Manella (nerd,) Yanni Yogi (old man,) Angel (pretty/seductive woman,) Turner Grey (paranoid/angry man,) Adrain Andrews (typical woman,) Desiree DeLite (same,) Viola Cadaverini (sickly/injured woman,) Hobo Phoenix (surprisingly, he's an effective normal man,) Alita Tiala (younger woman,) Romein LeTouse (government/businessman,) and Vera Misham (shy girl.)


I'm already doing a case
Spoiler : :
where I have Turner Grey's sprites playing a paranoid/angry guy who's the first witness. Since, as you say, we see very little of Turner Grey the canon character, his sprites don't have as much baggage attached to them.


Hodou Okappa a écrit :
EXAMPLE:

Spoiler : :
Since Bitter doesn't work for this, I'm going to use an example from An Angry Canuck's trial Turnabout Escort.

Character selection: Apollo is a great choice for defense because the case is right up his alley -- full of unusual and exasperating witnesses. There's both a good and a bad example of OC sprite selection: for Asterik DuGaulle, An Angry Canuck chose Damon Gant, but the two are a little too similar and it can feel awkward at times. On the other hand, we have Turner Grey's sprites representing Whit Ness. Turner isn't in the main series long enough for his personality to be fully fleshed out, whereas Whit Ness is a very different character who easily becomes a memorable part of the trial.
[/quote]

Spoiler : :
Definately agree on both counts, there.


-------------

EDIT:
henke37 a écrit :Dead does not have to mean executed. It could be the stress simply getting to his body.


True. I kind of have the idea that
Spoiler : :
Manfred von Karma died of a heart attack because he couldn't accept the fact that he'd be sent to prison just like the people he prosecuted in every case. Either that, or maybe he was killed in prison by someone he himself sent there or was a friend or relative of someone who got the death penalty thanks to him. To me, either of those is a way of (ahem) karma biting back in a way more satisfying than his being executed.
Dernière édition par Meph le Lun Juin 18, 2012 8:48 pm, édité 1 fois.
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Nyhmthetim » Lun Août 20, 2012 4:53 pm

Hey Hodou. I'm someone you don't know named Nyhm. Now as to why I'm posting, I thought I could use some advice. So I reas your guide and I said to myself: Hey wait a minute, I already know about a lot of this stuff... but it's hilarious! So I'mma gonna keep a readun."

I'd like to give yah a pat on the back for such a great guide though.

Oh, and BTW, I've never played the Bitter Turnabout. I've never played any featured trial or any body else's trial for that matter, except for Ace Attorney Online: The Game, which I never finished. So now you've got yourself the odd one out.
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par fangirlarchives » Mer Juin 25, 2014 12:56 am

You said "if you use canon characters, your trial IS a canon trial (barring some exceptions I'll detail later.)"
what are the exceptions...how would you go about writing a canon?
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par drvonkitty » Mer Juin 25, 2014 1:08 am

fangirlarchives a écrit :You said "if you use canon characters, your trial IS a canon trial (barring some exceptions I'll detail later.)"
what are the exceptions...how would you go about writing a canon?

An exception would be if your case is an Alternate Universe. I'm not really sure what you mean by "writing a canon". The canon is basically the events of the Ace Attorney universe - those are set in stone, and if your trial uses characters from that "universe", then it has to fit within that canon.

However, like I said, an alternate universe would be an exception to that rule. In that case, you're working with your own "canon". However, 99% of the time, your "canon" will be working around the AA canon universe. For example, Edgeworth can't just be thrown in as a magical girl in some anime or whatever. Instead, he needs to be in an alternate-AA universe. Does that make any sense?

this isn't even my guide why I am explaining the thing
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Enthalpy » Mer Juin 25, 2014 1:17 am

The one exception is called an "Alternate Universe" (AU) case, which uses the same characters, but gives them different backstories and significant but not absolute character changes. The best examples of this are Shattered Glass: Turnabout Reversal by TheDoctor and Turnabout of Courage by Blackrune.

To write an AU case well, you need to make it clear what the changes from the canon personality are, and to make the character consistent as a whole. In Turnabout Reversal, we see quickly enough that Edgeworth has a different backstory, and we get a feel for what that backstory is. Because it's part of an AU!series, it can and should be slower in revealing the details of the AU to the reader. In Turnabout of Courage, the player learns early on exactly what has changed to its characters:
Spoiler : Turnabout of Courage spoilers :
Godot came out of his coma and married Mia only to be poisoned again and die, Phoenix stayed under Mia's wing until his disbarment, Larry won a lottery ticket and bought a mansion which he shared with Edgeworth...

...and there's also the whole Phoenix going insane and killing Godot, Larry, and Edgeworth thing.

Changes should also be noticeable, but not so stark as to make the character completely different unless you have a very specific reason for doing so. As drvonkitty alluded to, making Edgeworth a defense attorney who never went through the trauma of DL-6 is perfectly fine if he still retains most of his personality. Making Edgeworth lazy and stupid is dangerous. Making Edgeworth a magical girl is idiocy.
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Re: Hodou Masaka's Big Glorious Trial Writing Guide! 

Message par Tulipau » Sam Mars 14, 2015 5:45 pm

Really Glorious Guide! I had trouble choosing sprites for my OC until now :)
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