Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful

Find detailed help from the AAO community, or write your own tutorials.

Modérateur: EN - Forum Moderators

Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Meph » Sam Fév 19, 2011 6:15 pm

Meph's Handy Tips #3
Players are forgetful

People who play your trial are very forgetful. Sorry to any players who are reading this, but you all are! And being a player myself, I'm forgetful too!

So what's the point that I'm trying to make? Players need help from authors, because there are always going to be important facts mentioned in cases that we could easily forget. There are even some things that we can forget just five seconds after being told them! This doesn't happen in the real Ace Attorney games, so in this tip, I'll show you simple ways to help players to remember important facts.

* * *

Problem
This is the most common mistake that authors can make. Let's say that you're you're playing a trial and the defence is about to be asked to present some evidence.

Judge: I don't believe this! These are very extreme accusations.
Prosecution: Indeed. But the defence is clearly bluffing, Your Honor.
Defence: Objection! That's not true.
Prosecution: Oh really? Then prove that you're not bluffing. Show us who you're referring to.
Defence: Alright then. This is who I mean... [present profile]

Do you see the problem? The problem is: the player cannot remember what the question is, because it was mentioned in frames prior to the ones shown above. What the player is meant to present is the profile of the real murderer.

However, this problem can sometimes occur immediately after the player is told the question. Here's an example:-

Prosecution: Oh really? Then prove that you're not bluffing. Show us who you're referring to.
Defence: Alright then. I'll show you who the real murderer is.
Defence: That person is... [present profile]

The player could still forget what the question is. It can easily happen. I do it all the time! :XD:

Solution
You must always state the question in the frame where you ask the player to present the evidence or choose as option. Here are some examples:-

Prosecution: Oh really? Then prove that you're not bluffing. Show us who you're referring to.
Defence: Alright then. I'll show you who the real murderer is.
Defence: The person who really murdered the victim is... [present profile]

Judge: Are you saying that the victim wasn't actually murdered on the water slide!?
Defence: No, Your Honor! It was somewhere else!
Judge: Then tell me: where was the victim killed? [point to area of image]

Prosecution: Objection! Stop badgering the witness.
Defence: (He's hiding something. I'm sure he is.)
Defence: (Should I press further?) [choose an option]

Make sure you do this with all questions, no matter what the context is.

* * *

Problem
Sometimes, a character could casually mention something to the player that is actually really important. Here is an example:-

[in the detention centre]
Defence: What was the crime scene like at the time?
Defendant: There wasn't anything interesting about it. It was clean and no one was there.
Defence: Oh. (That wasn't very helpful.)

[in the trial]
Witness: The crime scene was a mess! There was dirt everywhere!

There is a contradiction here. The defendant said that the crime scene was clean, but the witness said that it was dirty. What's the problem? It is not easy for the player to remember that fact. Their brain won't store that fact in their long term memory, because it doesn't appear to be important.

Solution
You need to make important facts look important. You need to emphasis these facts so that the player can remember them more easily. You don't need lots of emphasis; just enough that the player won't easily forget the important facts.

The most obvious way of doing this is with red text. For example:-

Defence: What was the crime scene like at the time?
Defendant: There wasn't anything interesting about it. It was clean and no one was there.
Defence: Oh. (That wasn't very helpful.)

However, the way that the protagonist reacts to the important fact is also important.

Defence: What was the crime scene like at the time?
Defendant: There wasn't anything interesting about it. It was clean and no one was there.
Defence: (It was clean? That's strange.)

Sometimes, you may want to make this more subtle. You could try repeating the fact a few times. For example:-

[in the detention centre]
Defence: What was the crime scene like at the time?
Defendant: There wasn't anything interesting about it. It was clean and no one was there.
Defence: Oh. (That wasn't very helpful.)

[in the defendant lobby]
Defendant: Like I said earlier, no one was there. It was really tidy room, like no one had been in it.

Make sure you use emphasis to ensure that players don't forget any important facts in your cases.

* * *

These are all of the problems that I can think of. Can anyone remember (pun :P ) any more?
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Meph
 
Message(s) : 13439
Inscription : Lun Nov 10, 2008 10:07 pm
Localisation : Probably Disneyland Paris... or the UK
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Blackrune » Sam Fév 19, 2011 6:37 pm

Heh, interesting guide. I noticed that, too: In the official games the green text is always formulated in a way that makes it perfectly clear what the question is.

The court record is also a good way to remind the player. If you get to know something important about a certain piece of evidence, it should be in the description unless it's really easy to remember.(Like, if the player himself picked up the gun at the crime scene, it doesn't necessarily need to mention that in the record. That's something the player will/should be able to remember.)
All the important information should be in there. If the gun was shot three times, it shouldn't just say: "This is the murder weapon."

(Of course adding a person's testimony as evidence would sometimes make it too obvious that it's important. But expecting the player to remember one small remark and point it out by presenting the profile of the person who said it is too much again. It should be something that that person really emphasized on in the past... or there should be appropiate hints to remind the player.)
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Blackrune
 
Message(s) : 3772
Inscription : Ven Avr 17, 2009 3:11 am
Localisation : Right behind you
Langues parlées: English, German, Japanese

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par E.D.Revolution » Sam Fév 19, 2011 6:41 pm

I have to agree with this guide. It really irritates me to no end when the Author forces me to answer a question in such a vague way. It's not that hard to reiterate the question when when you are pressed to do it in green text. I forget what the issue was and you want to punish me? Totally not fair! Especially with penalties on the line...

Fair point about memory tests when it comes to things that happen in the investigation that you must recall later. I'm guilty of that. :XD:
Image
Avatar de l’utilisateur
E.D.Revolution
 
Message(s) : 5721
Inscription : Lun Juil 26, 2010 9:00 pm
Localisation : Across dimensions, transcending universes
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English and decent Spanish

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par SwagmaWampyr » Sam Fév 19, 2011 6:58 pm

Image

(it makes sense if youve played NYT)
The one and only Rated B member.
Engaged to Gumpei <3
ImageImageImage


Image


Image
Avatar de l’utilisateur
SwagmaWampyr
 
Message(s) : 7338
Inscription : Jeu Avr 16, 2009 2:15 pm
Localisation : The mucky muck castle made of clouds
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English, Basic 1337

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Blackrune » Sam Fév 19, 2011 7:04 pm

^Memory screwage at its best. Sponsored by the same persons that asked you to point out the exact date, location and content of certain conversations in TSub.
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Blackrune
 
Message(s) : 3772
Inscription : Ven Avr 17, 2009 3:11 am
Localisation : Right behind you
Langues parlées: English, German, Japanese

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Ping' » Sam Fév 19, 2011 7:09 pm

He he, indeed ;)

Though in fact, all the questions requiring you to remember some things could also be answered deductively, by elimination, or at worst using intelligent guessing. It's easy to panic when you don't remember, even though you don't actually have to.

Spoiler : tsub :
(Timers and harsh penalties do not help XD) Still, it's not like you need huge memory to remember, for instance, that there was a "murder" in Erlenmeyer's cell when the first days revolved around that very event. Yes, you're presented with all the locations, which makes it seem like there's a huge chance of you getting it wrong, but ultimately most of them are irrelevant and there's only one that makes sense.
As for the "how Rhea got to know about Erlenmeyer's location" question, again, it's by elimination. You only see Erlenmeyer once before he's arrested, and that's during the flashback trial. All you have to remember is that Rhea was present in the first part of the flashback trial rather than the second (which was extremely short and basically consisted in "here's decisive evidence lulz" "your evidence is forged, pwned"), but even if you guess at this point it's only a 50/50 chance.
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ping'
 
Message(s) : 843
Inscription : Mar Déc 30, 2008 12:23 pm
Localisation : UK
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: Français, English, Español

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Blackrune » Sam Fév 19, 2011 7:36 pm

Yep, that's pretty much what I did there. (and in E.D.'s trials)
Wasn't exactly sure what was said when and where... just made an educated guess.
Things like that are actually still fair in my opinion, as long as they only require you to remember the general gist of what has happened... or if there's only one reasonable possibility anyway.

It's reasonable to honor this guide in general, but I think there can be instances where "memory-tests" or something similar can be justified.
It's the same issue as with those "But he couldn't have known that!"-contradictions to get the culprit. It all depends on how exactly you do it.
(After all, rules are there to be broken! ^^")
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Blackrune
 
Message(s) : 3772
Inscription : Ven Avr 17, 2009 3:11 am
Localisation : Right behind you
Langues parlées: English, German, Japanese

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Ping' » Sam Fév 19, 2011 7:59 pm

Yeah... I think in general memory tests when done right can work, especially when there's a way to get to the answer without relying solely on memory.

Spoiler : tsub :
The last part of TSub is deliberately designed to play with your nerves. The timer, the unexpected questions... everything is made to put the player under a lot of stress. (That seems to have succeeded pretty well :p)
But when you get past the initial scare, it's not that difficult to find the answers with simple thinking.
In a way, it's similar to...

Spoiler : virtual/ohoat :
...Virtual and OHoaT, both trials that are very intimidating because of the context in which questions are asked (you get the feeling that you're being tested), while answers rarely require you to go beyond elementary logic.
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Ping'
 
Message(s) : 843
Inscription : Mar Déc 30, 2008 12:23 pm
Localisation : UK
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: Français, English, Español

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Meph » Sam Fév 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Blackrune a écrit :It's reasonable to honor this guide in general, but I think there can be instances where "memory-tests" or something similar can be justified.

Indeed. If you've got a good reason to do something different, then do it. :)
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Meph
 
Message(s) : 13439
Inscription : Lun Nov 10, 2008 10:07 pm
Localisation : Probably Disneyland Paris... or the UK
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par Mimi » Dim Avr 03, 2011 6:41 am

No wonder I have such a hard time playing these trials... :cute:
Avatar de l’utilisateur
Mimi
 
Message(s) : 10381
Inscription : Mer Jan 27, 2010 6:35 am
Localisation : ...If you just breathe normally and don't turn around...
Genre: Féminin
Langues parlées: English: the only language I can brag about

Re: Guide: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par AmeftoWriter » Ven Avr 22, 2011 9:51 pm

I like being vague in my writing, but you are right about this...
Sig and avatar made by: Blue Spruce
"The truth is not always... what it seems to be"
Now recruiting!

Be Careful of GK2 Spoilers


Image
Avatar de l’utilisateur
AmeftoWriter
 
Message(s) : 63
Inscription : Lun Avr 18, 2011 3:31 am
Genre: Féminin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par DKJustice1 » Dim Avr 28, 2013 12:24 pm

I have to admit that I often forget to use the red writing: Why does this coiour (UK spelling) make it easier for people to remember?

What other colours could we be using as well as red?
[size=85]Ace Attorney Poem.

What a crime is done.
Gumshoe's has come.
His name is Dick.
It's a point and click.


To find a clue
or maybe a few.
To made your point of view.

In the trial
where every one stares
the judge does glare.


Objections fly from everywhere![/size]
Avatar de l’utilisateur
DKJustice1
 
Message(s) : 174
Inscription : Ven Juin 29, 2012 1:44 pm
Genre: Féminin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par DeeYo » Dim Avr 28, 2013 12:53 pm

Mostly orange, or green as a last resort. Or basically any vivid color, accompanied by a sound effect.

also I didn't know the UK spelling was coiour
Image

Total times sued: 10328
Avatar de l’utilisateur
DeeYo
 
Message(s) : 936
Inscription : Ven Nov 23, 2012 4:21 pm
Localisation : Yes
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: Hungarian, English, some Russian, Spanish, German

Re: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par DKJustice1 » Lun Juin 03, 2013 1:48 am

Can anyone tell me why these bright colours help people to remember. In my new trial I have remember the red text.
also can I just say before this topic goes off topic as with Meph's serious topic thanks for the tips.

@ Meph I am still on the look out for the forum that makes you speechless getting closer. Mark my words I'll find it.

:D :D
[size=85]Ace Attorney Poem.

What a crime is done.
Gumshoe's has come.
His name is Dick.
It's a point and click.


To find a clue
or maybe a few.
To made your point of view.

In the trial
where every one stares
the judge does glare.


Objections fly from everywhere![/size]
Avatar de l’utilisateur
DKJustice1
 
Message(s) : 174
Inscription : Ven Juin 29, 2012 1:44 pm
Genre: Féminin
Langues parlées: English

Re: Meph's Handy Tips #3: Players are forgetful 

Message par eighthbit » Lun Juin 03, 2013 4:10 am

Bright colors usually stand out. Especially in a text based game.
'Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.'
-Elbert Hubbard
Avatar de l’utilisateur
eighthbit
 
Message(s) : 896
Inscription : Ven Mai 11, 2012 12:11 pm
Localisation : There...
Genre: Masculin
Langues parlées: English


Retour vers Tutorials

Qui est en ligne ?

Utilisateur(s) parcourant ce forum : Aucun utilisateur inscrit et 0 invité(s)

cron