[T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

ikuzonos wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:28 pm -snip-
Glad you're enjoying it so far!
Spoiler : :
First, make sure you're playing on Mozilla Firefox. Unfortunately, the SVGs won't work on Chrome, and the perceive will be unplayable without guesswork. If you are and you still can't find it, here's where to look:
Spoiler : :
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I think the tell is on a phrase like "where Daddy is" or something like that. She shifts her arm up and down.
Let me know if you have any other issues!
MedicInDisquise wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:33 pm -snip-
Thanks for playing!
Spoiler : :
Yeah, the mystery is definitely my least favorite part of the case, and probably the weakest. I'm really glad you enjoyed the banter and characters! Apollo and Athena are an especially fun duo to write.

Most of the credit for the presentation goes to my collaborator, mercurialSK, who doesn't come around AAO anymore unfortunately, but I commissioned the final cutscene from a lovely artist (hazakurain.tumblr.com). She's fantastic, and I'd love to work with her again should I ever need another ending cutscene like that. I think it really enhances an already very emotional ending.
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ikuzonos
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by ikuzonos »

It took the rest of my day, but I finished the case, and oh my goodness. This is a work of art. I was brought to tears by the end of it, and I'm so glad that it was finished after all these years! I can really see all the hard work that went into this; it absolutely paid off. Some more specific thoughts below!
Spoiler : :
So... after finding out that I'd been trying to perceive the wrong arm...
I found the rest of the case to be absolutely fascinating. I couldn't solve the details of the mystery itself ahead of time (though I was bothered by the lacerations on the back of Phoenix's thighs until that was finally explained), but I maintained interest and followed along as best I could.
The characters, both canon and original, really shone here. Everything felt vivid and organic; Apollo and Athena played off each other perfectly ("If you can shout 'Here comes Justice!' then I can shout whatever I want!"), Trucy was outstanding in every respect (Her pulling out Mr. Hat in an attempt to cheer up Apollo and Athena despite her own suffering), Franziska's development was realistic and heartwarming, and like I said, Phoenix and Trucy reuniting at the end made me cry. I love the emphasis on the WAA as a family.
Castor was an excellent villain. I had a feeling the moment I saw him that he'd done it, but I had no way of proving how until much later. His 'Trick Thunder' gimmick first made him memorable, and now makes me think it may have been foreshadowing. I started getting the feeling that he was a scumbag around when he mentioned that Trucy apparently talked to him about her problems because she felt alone (that, and the photo he took was way too convenient), and then by the end, I absolutely loathed him, which made finally cornering him that much more satisfying. While I knew he was shady, I didn't even suspect that he'd actually turn out to be Apollo's father until he said Thalassa's name and the bracelet reacted, and it just clicked into place. The reveal itself was absolutely gutwrenching in the best way possible.
Julius and Jane worked really well too, and it was nice to see the both of them change for the better! I was really touched by the anecdote in the epilogue of Julius' mother remembering his name. I figured that Jane had to be innocent before she was even called to the stand, since we never met her during Part One, but her contributions to the case certainly kept me on my toes.
The resolution to the Gramarye arc and AA4 in general was so refreshing. I wish this was the direction the games had gone, because it was so cathartic. I appreciated that despite the incident between Castor and the Gramaryes, Thalassa was still portrayed as sympathetic (despite Castor and Franziska's efforts lol). It doesn't get brought up much, but she would've only been 18 when Apollo was born. I couldn't even blame her if she'd willingly given him up considering that; god knows I wouldn't be able to handle that pressure and responsibility.
As a whole, this case was lovely and most certainly deserves to be featured! I'm so glad I was able to play it!
You can call me ikuzonos, but my name is Sparrow!
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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

Wow, thank you so much for playing! It's flattering to hear that what I wrote could actually make someone emotional—that's really rewarding to hear after all these years. Responses below in the green!
ikuzonos wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:26 am It took the rest of my day, but I finished the case, and oh my goodness. This is a work of art. I was brought to tears by the end of it, and I'm so glad that it was finished after all these years! I can really see all the hard work that went into this; it absolutely paid off. Some more specific thoughts below!
Spoiler : :
So... after finding out that I'd been trying to perceive the wrong arm...
Yeah, in retrospect, I see how the old walkthrough wasn't as helpful as it should have been. I added that screenshot in case anyone else gets stuck on it.
I found the rest of the case to be absolutely fascinating. I couldn't solve the details of the mystery itself ahead of time (though I was bothered by the lacerations on the back of Phoenix's thighs until that was finally explained), but I maintained interest and followed along as best I could.
The characters, both canon and original, really shone here. Everything felt vivid and organic; Apollo and Athena played off each other perfectly ("If you can shout 'Here comes Justice!' then I can shout whatever I want!"), Trucy was outstanding in every respect (Her pulling out Mr. Hat in an attempt to cheer up Apollo and Athena despite her own suffering), Franziska's development was realistic and heartwarming, and like I said, Phoenix and Trucy reuniting at the end made me cry. I love the emphasis on the WAA as a family.
As much as I'm not a fan of DD, the Apollo/Athena/Trucy/Phoenix group is fantastic to write for. They all have their own chemistry in unique and fascinating ways. Apollo and Athena play off each other really well, and it's interesting to see how their two visions of justice can differ and clash.
Castor was an excellent villain. I had a feeling the moment I saw him that he'd done it, but I had no way of proving how until much later. His 'Trick Thunder' gimmick first made him memorable, and now makes me think it may have been foreshadowing. I started getting the feeling that he was a scumbag around when he mentioned that Trucy apparently talked to him about her problems because she felt alone (that, and the photo he took was way too convenient), and then by the end, I absolutely loathed him, which made finally cornering him that much more satisfying. While I knew he was shady, I didn't even suspect that he'd actually turn out to be Apollo's father until he said Thalassa's name and the bracelet reacted, and it just clicked into place. The reveal itself was absolutely gutwrenching in the best way possible.
It's interesting that you say that! A lot of this case was dreamed up back in 2014 AAO, and it shows: there's a lot of intentional designs and decisions that reflect the state of AAO cases back then. Cases then were really focused on mystery, intrigue, and twists, with a heavy emphasis on classic mysteries and the rigid rules to writing a mystery story (I remember Knox's decalogue being referenced a lot). In some ways, I wanted this case to buck the trend, but I also play into it: the whole setup of Jane and Castor is designed to trick people who think meta, because Castor comes across like a villain early on, while Jane shows up out of the blue. When she does, all of these things signal that we're reaching the end of the trial (music, inner monologue, etc), all in an attempt to make people dismiss Castor early on and have that presumption verified by the appearance of Jane. Because you're newer here (and likely thinking less along the lines of old AAO cases and more along the lines of standard AA stuff), I think you saw through that pretty easily. Which is quite neat!
Julius and Jane worked really well too, and it was nice to see the both of them change for the better! I was really touched by the anecdote in the epilogue of Julius' mother remembering his name. I figured that Jane had to be innocent before she was even called to the stand, since we never met her during Part One, but her contributions to the case certainly kept me on my toes.
The resolution to the Gramarye arc and AA4 in general was so refreshing. I wish this was the direction the games had gone, because it was so cathartic. I appreciated that despite the incident between Castor and the Gramaryes, Thalassa was still portrayed as sympathetic (despite Castor and Franziska's efforts lol). It doesn't get brought up much, but she would've only been 18 when Apollo was born. I couldn't even blame her if she'd willingly given him up considering that; god knows I wouldn't be able to handle that pressure and responsibility.
Yeah, it's subtle, but I wanted to make clear that Thalassa was a victim of this too, though I have to admit I never even thought about how young she would've been when Apollo was born! She talks about being trapped in the Gramarye clan, and she really was. The real OG villain there is Magnifi.
As a whole, this case was lovely and most certainly deserves to be featured! I'm so glad I was able to play it!
Thank you! Let me know what you think of Ace of Turnabouts sometime :D
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Gizmological
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by Gizmological »

Now that I finally have some free time on my hands, I wanted to get into playing other people's games some more. Even if BOTL was way before my time here, the featuring of this case was too good timing.
Spoiler : :
So, I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's all a very satisfying conclusion to Apollo's arc, and it's kind of a shame that SoJ beat you to the punch, but I didn't let that affect my enjoyment of the case. The dialogue was smooth, the custom assets were gorgeous and it all just felt very canon-esque. The characters' personalities are spot-on, I really like your take on post-AJ Franny, and I enjoyed each of the OCs as well. The writing was great, very emotional story with lots of moving parts and food for thought. It definitely feels like you made the most of the magic show setting, its a great enabler for murder mystery hijinks, on-par with The Magical Turnabout.

I will fully confess that I am the type of person to give up quickly and look up a walkthrough when it comes to fangames, but I'm happy to say that wasn't the case this time. There definitely were some challenging puzzles, but I either worked these out eventually or, at the very least, was kicking myself in retrospect. Everything felt fair, for the most part. I'll admit that there were some mood matrix sections that felt somewhat less intuitive, but I honestly find that to be a flaw in the design of the mechanic as a whole, even in canon, because of how subjective it can be. I don't think there's really a fix for that, so the reduced penalties for getting these wrong felt like a suitable enough compromise. I also didn't really get the perceive segments, other than the first one with Trucy. This could be that I just missed something important, but I didn't understand how you find the correct statement other than just trial and error. Again, the reduced penalties were appreciated here. Other than these small things, no major gripes!
Having to dedicate so much time to studies and other obligations kind of burned me out to the point where I couldn't do anything on aaonline. Genuinely, though, playing through this trial got me feeling so nostalgic for Apollo Justice and really served to remind me just how much I love these games. It was a great experience.

Congratulations on getting featured, you definitely deserve it!
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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

Thanks for playing! Glad you enjoyed it. Responses green, you get the drill.
Gizmological wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:06 pm
Spoiler : :
So, I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's all a very satisfying conclusion to Apollo's arc, and it's kind of a shame that SoJ beat you to the punch, but I didn't let that affect my enjoyment of the case. The dialogue was smooth, the custom assets were gorgeous and it all just felt very canon-esque. The characters' personalities are spot-on, I really like your take on post-AJ Franny, and I enjoyed each of the OCs as well. The writing was great, very emotional story with lots of moving parts and food for thought. It definitely feels like you made the most of the magic show setting, its a great enabler for murder mystery hijinks, on-par with The Magical Turnabout.
Yeah, even if SoJ beat us to the punch, I hope atcj can satisfy people who weren't fans of the way SoJ handled Apollo. Glad you enjoyed the writing and the characters--Franzy was fun, if a bit tricky, to write for. She's such a fascinating character.
I will fully confess that I am the type of person to give up quickly and look up a walkthrough when it comes to fangames, but I'm happy to say that wasn't the case this time. There definitely were some challenging puzzles, but I either worked these out eventually or, at the very least, was kicking myself in retrospect. Everything felt fair, for the most part. I'll admit that there were some mood matrix sections that felt somewhat less intuitive, but I honestly find that to be a flaw in the design of the mechanic as a whole, even in canon, because of how subjective it can be. I don't think there's really a fix for that, so the reduced penalties for getting these wrong felt like a suitable enough compromise. I also didn't really get the perceive segments, other than the first one with Trucy. This could be that I just missed something important, but I didn't understand how you find the correct statement other than just trial and error. Again, the reduced penalties were appreciated here. Other than these small things, no major gripes!
I'm actually the same way, even with mainline AA games. I do my best, but I usually end up falling back on a walkthrough at some point or another. In fangames, I often just rely on the walkthrough to start, as I'm more interested in the story than anything else. Re: perceive sections, they aren't implemented unfortunately, so it's basically just a guessing game. To be honest though, perceive in AJ is kind of a guessing game too iirc? And probably even a bit more monotonous since you have to look through it.

I'm actually quite surprised you found the mystery fair and got through it without too much trouble. Several people have said they found it frustrating and preferred to lean on the walkthrough, which I don't blame them for--I was never very happy with how the mystery turned out. That being said, I'm glad to hear you liked it! Maybe it's not as bad as I thought.
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by Mancomb Seepgood »

It doesn't seem like anyone else has had this issue yet, but apparently I ended up softlocking the investigation segment somehow.
Spoiler : :
In the backstage area with Castor, I was somehow able to miss getting Brushel's file and continued on up to the point where you get permission to investigate the crime scene. I didn't even notice until I finally caved and checked the walkthrough, but it skipped the scene with Brushel and getting formally kicked off the crime scene, before trapping me at the crime scene, where I couldn't progress or move anywhere. I think the move option to the detention center or the WAA got triggered too early somehow?
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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:47 pm It doesn't seem like anyone else has had this issue yet, but apparently I ended up softlocking the investigation segment somehow.
Spoiler : :
In the backstage area with Castor, I was somehow able to miss getting Brushel's file and continued on up to the point where you get permission to investigate the crime scene. I didn't even notice until I finally caved and checked the walkthrough, but it skipped the scene with Brushel and getting formally kicked off the crime scene, before trapping me at the crime scene, where I couldn't progress or move anywhere. I think the move option to the detention center or the WAA got triggered too early somehow?
That's strange. It sounds like the last task you did in the first part of the investigation had a faulty variable check. Do you remember the order in which you did things? That would help me track down the cause.
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by Enthalpy »

You can also get this kind of information by taking his save state and opening it in the debugger.
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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

That would also work, if Mancomb still has it.
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by MegaFan »

The upper screen images during the Perceive segment in the first part are broken.
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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

MegaFan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:24 am The upper screen images during the Perceive segment in the first part are broken.
Thanks for letting me know. Looks like a hosting issue... I'll fix it soon.
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drvonkitty
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Re: [T][CE] A Turnabout Called Justice ★

Post by drvonkitty »

Issue is fixed on my end—let me know if anyone else has problems with it!
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