[T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

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Mosy
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Thank you for replying so fast! I already have the suspicion in the right place, but somehow didn't consider the intended answer.

Maybe a little review:
Spoiler : :
Turnabout Convention is a case that brought the new perspective of the growth of Gumshoe's character. Packed with several humorous other characters, the case has had an enormous improvement since the Turnabout Protect. The twist in the ending part is something that you can't imagine - you really have to experience it yourself. The rebuttals aren't too hard, and if you get stuck, the clues are very helpful(although I stuck at one point). The other mechanics can be also followed relatively smoothly. On the other hand, several things need to be improved though, but let's leave that to the experts. I really have a great time playing this case and want to see your other works. Great job! :D :D :larry:
[/quote]

Thank you so much!!! that's a great review which I will forever remember and use to summarize the Case :pearlhappy: , of course, it can't be perfect and still requires many improvements, I'm very glad you enjoyed it :) (LOL Protect was my first case so it was pretty bad but thank you ^^)
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Romanjahangir »

Hello i am also stuck but on part 2, the second testimony of Diana, the one about the blackout, i have already presented the clue at the last statement but now i am suppose to use a real evidence but i can't find it. Can someone help me please?
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Romanjahangir wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:02 pm Hello i am also stuck but on part 2, the second testimony of Diana, the one about the blackout, i have already presented the clue at the last statement but now i am suppose to use a real evidence but i can't find it. Can someone help me please?
No worries, I'm here!
When you're stuck a good way to get more info is by going through the penalty, in the penalty Gumshoe mentions that: "If I'm done from that Clue, I think connecting the E.C.P with some evidence should do the trick!"
Spoiler : :
Here is the solution: Find the statement that speaks about the E.C.P, there are two of them, only one is relevant
Spoiler : :
(The second part speaking about the numbers)now all we gotta do is present something the numbers represent to find the contradiction.
Answer:
Spoiler : :
Statement 4: Present Blueprints.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy the rest, sorry for the wait. :pearlhappy:
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Enthalpy
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Enthalpy »

☆ This case is pending a QA inspection to be featured.
For reference, the QA request came in some time ago, but the original QAer on this review has not been able to commit to it, so I'll be doing this. I'll warn you that the review will take some time because this is a long case. I'm estimating two weeks.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Enthalpy wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:33 pm
☆ This case is pending a QA inspection to be featured.
For reference, the QA request came in some time ago, but the original QAer on this review has not been able to commit to it, so I'll be doing this. I'll warn you that the review will take some time because this is a long case. I'm estimating two weeks.
I'm sorry about the Original QAer, but I thank you with all my heart, Mr. Enthalpy! ❤️❤️❤️ Take your time. I hope you enjoy it. (It may start off slow, but the later parts pick up in speed and story quickly).
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Enthalpy »

First order of business, it looks like there are some graphics on the first part that aren't loading. Can you take a look to make sure that all of them are working?

Taking a casual look at your graphics, I can tell popup #50 doesn't have a URL, evidence #5 is broken. You also have some startup sprites without associated talking or still sprites. Those will also count as "graphics not present," so should be ignored.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Enthalpy wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:08 pm First order of business, it looks like there are some graphics on the first part that aren't loading. Can you take a look to make sure that all of them are working?

Taking a casual look at your graphics, I can tell popup #50 doesn't have a URL, evidence #5 is broken. You also have some startup sprites without associated talking or still sprites. Those will also count as "graphics not present," so should be ignored.
Thank you for telling me of the popups and evidence, these are indeed unneeded and have been left unused a while ago, I will delete them to fix the loading bar. About the startup animations, however, I left them as intended because I wanted it to be a fade away animation (Such as many of Tha'h's animations). I will add some empty transparent sprites to those. Now hopefully all animations are working so far.
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Enthalpy »

I'll need another week or two more than my earlier estimate.
Spoiler : :
This is a very absurd case, and I need to digest something like this in very small pieces, or else I just speed-click through everything.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Enthalpy wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:47 am I'll need another week or two more than my earlier estimate.
Spoiler : :
This is a very absurd case, and I need to digest something like this in very small pieces, or else I just speed-click through everything.
No problem please do take your time! it's true that it is absurd, but everything needs a good weirdness or two! it is better played slow rather than rushing to take in the data fully.
Thank you so much! ❤️
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Enthalpy »

I was wondering if you could elaborate on something for me.
Spoiler : :
Looking over the other posts in this topic, you said that you wanted some "humor here and there" and talked about "the growth of Gumshoe's character."

So why is Gumshoe so obsessed with sweets in this version? Is it a joke? Is this how you see the canon character?
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Enthalpy wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:31 am I was wondering if you could elaborate on something for me.
Spoiler : :
Looking over the other posts in this topic, you said that you wanted some "humor here and there" and talked about "the growth of Gumshoe's character."

So why is Gumshoe so obsessed with sweets in this version? Is it a joke? Is this how you see the canon character?
You must mean honey buns, Gumshoe in the Trilogy as canon usually DOES speak allot about food including instant noodles, cakes, and other carbs. It may be overly the top here sometimes, however, him speaking of Food is a running Gag in my Gumshoe writing. Other than the food "jokes" I wrote him both cute, comical, and serious when times are needed. (He gets more serious towards the end of the case) There was never enough Gumshoe for me to write off of, he hasn't appeared for the past TEN YEARS. Regarding how big he is, I think he would love sweet carbs! (Who knows maybe PWAA7 Gumshoe's guilty pleasure will all be revealed XD)
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Enthalpy »

The reason I needed those two extra weeks for the QA are no longer in play, so without further delay...
QA Review: Turnabout Convention

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Hmm. This might be a difficult man to defend.
When this case came in for QA, I tallied the frame count at 12139 frames. So what exactly is in these many frames? Answers below.
_____________________________________________________
My normal check one format fails yet again, so we have a small essay.
Spoiler : Check #1: Here Be Spoilers! :
This case did not pass the QA inspection, and I don't believe the case could pass QA inspection without fundamentally changing what it is. Although you've billed this case as an "attempt of a REAL AA case," the case's approach to comedy is miles away from the AA approach to comedy. In my judgment, this comedic style is incompatible with AA story-telling and mysteries. For me, the comedy made it much harder to enjoy the rest of the story.

Let's start off with how AA handles Gumshoe comedy. Here's an excerpt from T&T:
Edgeworth examines the ski equipment.
Gumshoe: Ah! I just love skiing!
Edgeworth: Really? You don't um... seem like the type.
Edgeworth: Well, what about sleds?
Gumshoe: Sleds? Nah. They're a little too kiddy, you know? Messes with my "hard boiled" image.
Edgeworth: ...
Gumshoe: ...What's with the silence, Mr. Edgeworth?
Edgeworth: (I...Is the world starting to go mad?)
Edgeworth plays the straight man to Gumshoe's eccentricities. The joke comes both from the surprise of Gumshoe not realizing that he is "kiddy" rather than "hard boiled," and Edgeworth's shocked response. Furthermore, Gumshoe hasn't put anybody in danger. Talking about evidence at the scene is a perfectly reasonable reaction to what Edgeworth did. The Gumshoe jokes are balanced by actual investigation, which provides a tone change so the Gumshoe jokes don't become overwhelming. The conversation is relatively short.

Here's an excerpt where Phoenix talks to him in JfA:
Phoenix presents Gumshoe's profile to Gumshoe.
Gumshoe: I look good! I think I've lost some weight, pal!
Phoenix: It's only wishful thinking.
Gumshoe: Wishful thinking, huh?
Gumshoe: ...
Gumshoe: In that case, I wishfully think I've lost some weight!
Phoenix: (I wishfully think he might face the facts one day...)
Gumshoe: Lately, I've been on the instant noodles only diet, pal!
We have the same pattern as before, but now Phoenix plays the comedic straight man rather than Edgeworth.

Here's how you handle Gumshoe comedy:
Ayeam: Gumshoe!!! I'm innocent! please, help meeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Ayeam is forcibly removed from the scene and is now under arrest.
Gumshoe: (W-What just happened, pal...? Everything happened so quickly...)
Gumshoe: (I think I'll deal with all of this... right after I take a small quality nap... gnite, pals...)
Gumshoe: *Snores...*
Gumshoe drifts off into a dream.
Gumshoe: Ugh... Please honey bees... save me.
A giant honey bee appears on-screen. Only the face of the bee fits on-screen.
Gumshoe: Don't worry, Gumshoe! I'm here!
Gumshoe: Ah Mr. Honey Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I missed ya so much, pal!!!
Gumshoe: I got some honey for ya! Here ya go!
Gumshoe: Woah! fresh honey right from the source, thanks pal! I owe ya one. Mmm! tasty!
Gumshoe: Just one more thing. This is only a dream, sadly. Goodbye :(.
Gumshoe: No wait! come back! don't leave me, honey beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
Gumshoe: Well, now Honey B is gone... What do I do now...?
Gumshoe: You know what, I kinda miss Ayeam pal. I think it's time I wake up and save him, yeah!
Gumshoe wakes up and encounters Dr. Doofenshchmirtz in an obviously fake beard.
All the points I mentioned above have changed. There is nobody to balance Gumshoe's eccentricities. Gumshoe is ignoring Ayeam's request for help. Taking a nap is not a reasonable reaction to seeing your friend arrested. We go from a very serious scene straight to an absurd joke, and then into another absurd joke. The joke goes on for a relatively long time.

Having a different comedic style than the canon games is not necessarily bad. But because your case has so many comedy moments like the ones I just quoted, we should ask how they affect the player's experience playing. I can only speak for myself. Because Gumshoe's responses are so unusual, I was confused for much of part one. Eventually, I found the surreal comedy funny but knew that it could become grating. By the end of part one, the constant jokes had grown old. Although you wanted a very emotional story in parts two and three, I wasn't able to take the story very seriously because all the jokes with story consequences tell me that I am not supposed to take it seriously. If you take the story seriously, then Gumshoe constantly putting himself in danger isn't funny: it's dangerous. Making matters even worse, I had stopped finding the jokes funny by that point. I tried to play the case in smaller chunks instead of "binging" it, but that only delayed my frustration with the case. You may have tried to write Gumshoe as "cute, comical, and serious," but the comedy drowned the rest out for me.

Some people may like this style of comedy, and some people may still get invested in the story even with the comedy. You've gotten positive reviews on the case for a reason. But I think there are enough AA fans who will be very turned off by these kinds of jokes that I can't approve this for QA.

There are a few other issues I want to bring your attention to:
  • This game has many frames that are just confusing if you don't understand the pop culture reference being made. A character from a young children's show, Sofia the First, sings a song. There's a joke where Big Place repeatedly asks "Watcha doin?", prompting Isabella (a character from Phineas and Ferb) to scream and faint. If I didn't remember that show, I would be left confused. The worst part of this is the confrontation against Axel in Part Three. I've never played Kingdom Hearts, so I had to look up the answers to most of the questions.
  • Early parts of the game play Seth/Prophesy as a joke. He's introduced as "King of the Losers", lives in a dumpster, his job is a Zelda-CDI joke, his name is "The Prophesy", and the game frequently prompts us to be disgusted by the man's obesity. I thought that his return from beyond the grave was also a joke until I got to Part Three and saw the backstory reveal. You are sending confused messages about how we are supposed to regard him.
  • There are quite a few plot points that don't seem plausible to me. Blaise could not be released from jail and give orders to arrest people because some convention organizer died. A man who is married with kids would definitely know if his wife was a robot. I still don't understand how Diana escaped from the box, or what hole in the box her passport fell out of. I don't understand why a convention center has a massive lava pit. This made me even more confused about how serious versus joke-y your case was supposed to be.
While I could go through an analysis of the gameplay elements if you want, I don't think fixing those will improve the player's experience much, as long as the other issues remain.
Spoiler : Check #2: Here Be Spoilers! :
Not performed.
_____________________________________________________
Spoiler : VERDICT :
☆ The QA inspection is complete. This case is not good enough to be featured. Sorry!

I respect the effort that went into this case. I really do. But this case isn't the "real AA case" that you say it is. For me and I think a lot of players, the constant surreal jokes get in the way of an "emotional story" and the gameplay. That being so, I cannot possibly recommend this for featured status.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Start(SPOILERS)
Spoiler : :
Thanks for the review and your time, no problem, I can see that your points DO stand correctly.
However, the final battle with Axel had nothing to do with playing the games, all the questions had some kind of trick to them that anyone would be able to know:
Example1: He asks for the name of Shakrams, some of them sound absurd and ONLY one of them sounds correct.
Example2: He asks for the name of his best friend(When we get an error he admits that his friend is a HE), listed in the names are ALL girl names, except for one.
Example3: The final question he asks for his Master's name, who should be referred to be found in the Court record profiles(Many thought it was related to the games, so I can see your point.)
Diana and Dinheiro shared adopted children, I'm not sure if they spoke about it because calling them full-out adopted may be a mean thing to say. Please stop calling her a robot ;-; she's a loving and caring adoptive mother who survived by means of cyber.
Middle:
Spoiler : :
When you compared Gumshoe not caring about Ayeam's arrest, what else would he be able to do?
You said:
"All the points I mentioned above have changed. There is nobody to balance Gumshoe's eccentricities. Gumshoe is ignoring Ayeam's request for help. Taking a nap is not a reasonable reaction to seeing your friend arrested."
But immediately after he wakes up:
Gumshoe: You know what, I kinda miss Ayeam pal. I think it's time I wake up and save him, yeah!
In the same period, Gumshoe gets back to the point.
You said: We go from a very serious scene straight to an absurd joke, and then into another absurd joke. The joke goes on for a relatively long time.
That is true, but all in turn happens is that Doofenshmirtz helps Gumshoe with the case, him and Dr. Beard run off to meet Ayeam in jail, closely after. What I understand is that overuse of jokes and comedy turn the case away from a good case, due to the change of moods and confusion that occurs.
End:
Spoiler : :
Overall, thank you very much for the Review, it was a pleasure. There was a bit too much tryharded "humor" placed into the case(sorry). I also loved your compare and contrast of Gumshoe from the Real games, which you are indeed correct by, but as I said before, he hasn't appeared for over a decade in a canon Ace Attorney so I was trying to find new arches, after all, this was just a Fancase and an "attempt" which would never be as good as the real thing. Thank you, see you around and have a great one!
Live life as you enjoy it, pal!- :objection:
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Enthalpy »

Responses in blue. I've done some editing of the parts I respond to; I've cleaned up the colors and removed the parts where I don't feel a response is necessary.
Mosy wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:50 pm Start(SPOILERS)
Spoiler : :
the final battle with Axel had nothing to do with playing the games, all the questions had some kind of trick to them that anyone would be able to know:
Example1: He asks for the name of Shakrams, some of them sound absurd and ONLY one of them sounds correct.
No. To somebody who knows nothing about the series, most of them sound plausible. Radiant Dawn sounds unlikely, but that's because I know that's the name of a Fire Emblem game.
Example2: He asks for the name of his best friend(When we get an error he admits that his friend is a HE), listed in the names are ALL girl names, except for one.
Your defense is that you're forcing the player to get a penalty to get this right. That's bad practice.
Example3: The final question he asks for his Master's name, who should be referred to be found in the Court record profiles(Many thought it was related to the games, so I can see your point.)
How am I supposed to know it's that person?
Diana and Dinheiro shared adopted children, I'm not sure if they spoke about it because calling them full-out adopted may be a mean thing to say. Please stop calling her a robot ;-; she's a loving and caring adoptive mother who survived by means of cyber.
I don't dispute her maternal affection. I do find it highly unlikely that Dinheiro wouldn't know his wife was "pure metal."
Middle:
Spoiler : :
When you compared Gumshoe not caring about Ayeam's arrest, what else would he be able to do?
If he isn't able to do anything, there wouldn't be a case.
You said: "All the points I mentioned above have changed. There is nobody to balance Gumshoe's eccentricities. Gumshoe is ignoring Ayeam's request for help. Taking a nap is not a reasonable reaction to seeing your friend arrested."
But immediately after he wakes up:
Gumshoe: You know what, I kinda miss Ayeam pal. I think it's time I wake up and save him, yeah!
In the same period, Gumshoe gets back to the point.
Yes, he cares about Ayeam then but not when he decides to take a nap for no apparent reason. This is not a reasonable reaction.

You said: We go from a very serious scene straight to an absurd joke, and then into another absurd joke. The joke goes on for a relatively long time.
That is true, but all in turn happens is that Doofenshmirtz helps Gumshoe with the case, him and Dr. Beard run off to meet Ayeam in jail, closely after.

I don't understand your point. "all in turn happens is that" is not valid English syntax.
[D]isordered speech is not so much injury to the lips that give it forth, as to the disproportion and incoherence of things in themselves, so negligently expressed. ~ Ben Jonson
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Re: [T] COMPLETE! Gumshoe Ace Detective: Turnabout Convention! The Adventure of a Lifetime! ●●○

Post by Mosy »

Oh man this might be pretty hard to answer to XD. But I'll try my best with examples, please don't take this the wrong way, I am just putting my final conclusion out. All is respect and positivity.
Spoiler : :
No. To somebody who knows nothing about the series, most of them sound plausible. Radiant Dawn sounds unlikely, but that's because I know that's the name of a Fire Emblem game.
You're right about this, I do think I could have worked better on his battle.
Your defense is that you're forcing the player to get a penalty to get this right. That's bad practice.
Letting someone getting a penalty isn't right, true, its one of the ways to know. But if we simply analyze the answers, there's no doubt we'd see a pattern(ratio of boy vs girl names)!
How am I supposed to know it's that person?
The whole entire case was leading up to this moment! :P, who else would it be? There was so much evidence of this person being IT.
I don't dispute her maternal affection. I do find it highly unlikely that Dinheiro wouldn't know his wife was "pure metal."
Thank you, I respect that. But that's what plottwists are! think of Edgeworth and Manfred, wouldn't this be almost the same?
If he isn't able to do anything, there wouldn't be a case.
That is also pretty true and funny at the same time, Gumshoe isn't the one to give up, though. Just like when Phoenix loses his badge or when Edgeworth gets his
Spoiler : :
entirety of a prosecutor taken from him by Courtney,
the case would be pretty much over, but it wasn't!
Yes, he cares about Ayeam then but not when he decides to take a nap for no apparent reason. This is not a reasonable reaction.
You're also right on that, but it's Gumshoe! he's not a perfect person, he wouldn't jump to Ayeam's defense quickly enough like a real Attorney, he's just a detective.

My case usually stresses it's players out because of it's length, so I can see your frustration. I've also been BINGE playing so many featured cases on this site(I love them all so much!) although allot of them do have mistakes, bugs, and some unfitting moments, I recently stumbled upon your Featured Case Turnabout Proxy, I'd imagine it being an older case, (By the way I love your music choices 👌) I'd just like to compare your case with mine for a bit, there were many bugs, and things just not completed such as the Evidence' Data. Or things such as When we leave Dee's cell she will tag along with us outside, this left my face looking like Jojo. And others like when Edgeworth is investigating drajo apartment, it would freeze when I would examine an area text box would be forever clickable (this might be client sided so I am not sure) Proxy didn't feel perfect in many ways but still made it to the Roster. Fancases have their mistakes as such. Your statements about most on the QA holds up strong and correct, that one time where you said Seth/Pruhphusy was a humor character but turned out to be important, THAT is the twist!
Spoiler : :
(compare to the plot twists of Simon Keyes or Phantom or maybe even Alba)
cases are supposed to be out in the wild, and they're meant to be creative, they shouldn't be limited to contents offered in the real thing such as T&T. Every case deserves a chance even if it has a few issues.

Anyway Thank you for everything, I'll leave it at that. I hope you have a great night! Gonna take my time next week playing Proxy :3.
Live life as you enjoy it, pal!- :objection:
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