Super Smash Brothers
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- kwando1313
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
We're doing brackets, so I presume it's 1v1.
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"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
- Gav
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
Hey, I'll do this.
gotMLK7 wrote:This is a list where NBA Jam beats Mega Man 2.
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
- Hodou Okappa
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
As for Distant Planet, I can weigh in here.
For one, the Bulborb is a predictable and temporary hazard. These are a common factor in counterpick stages with hazards - you might regard Unova Pokemon League and Halberd as other stages that heavily utilize these. The Bulborb is generally considered acceptable because it is predictable, as you know that the Bulborb will almost exclusively eat you when its mouth is open, so you know to avoid the Bulborb when this happens, and it is temporary, as the Bulborb rarely has its mouth open for long and its presence on the right side of the screen in general is only limited anyway. Basically, if the opponent gets the chance to somehow throw or spike you into the Bulborb, it's regarded as a fair advantage in the match because you had plenty of time and warning to work around it and an equal chance to utilize it yourself in the reverse situation. A side note: as a temporary platform, the Bulborb also provides a helpful service for characters with poor recoveries, like the platforms on Yoshi's Island.
The rainwater on the slope is similar - predictable thanks to the rain falling, and temporary. It's also possible for almost every character to recover after being pushed by the rain, provided the player reacts quickly enough. I've done it with Ganondorf and Donkey Kong, I would know. If you don't trust your vertical recovery, aim for the ledges.
The slope being "hard to hit anything" could possibly be a legitimate concern if we had proof that any characters could currently exploit that. In my personal experience, I haven't even found that to be true, but the slope is technically a walk-off so if a character could take advantage of this it would potentially be an issue. I'd like to hear a more specific argument on it, but until then I'm not convinced of an issue here.
As for Gumpei's other concern (unvoiced here but he's talked about it,) the pellets don't really seem to be powerful enough to warrant complaint IMO. They're an item, sure, but a weak one that seems it would be hard to exploit for a significant advantage. Tortimer's Island notably has similar items (the durians) and remains a counterpick.
There's a few things to note here about Distant Planet as a counterpick. First, Got accuses it of being "cramped." This is actually a very good thing. One of the primary reasons to pick Distant Planet is because it forces people into close combat, making camping with characters like Villager and Duck Hunt more difficult. It also has a "thin" bottom, allowing characters to attack from underneath the stage. This is a VERY desirable factor in counterpicks, as it allows characters with a weak land game but a strong aerial game (think Jigglypuff, or perhaps Luigi) to maneuver around the opponent in unique and helpful ways that they couldn't execute on any of the Omega stages. Distant Planet is a stage that provides significant benefits to a certain type of character, while not harming other characters enough to guarantee a loss. It has potential to turn a 4/6 matchup into a 5/5 or 6/4 matchup. That's the type of thing we want. I would urge you to not let personal feelings about a stage get in the way of objective analysis, and acknowledge that just because a stage doesn't favor your playstyle might not mean it's a bad stage. If, under the light of unbiased analysis, the stage has serious problems that make it either incredibly unfair for a large number of characters or very difficult to hold a normal match on, then Distant Planet must be banned. But I don't feel that this is the case, and in Brawl it was widely agreed that Distant Planet was a valid counterpick stage. That's my stance in Smash 4 as well.
For one, the Bulborb is a predictable and temporary hazard. These are a common factor in counterpick stages with hazards - you might regard Unova Pokemon League and Halberd as other stages that heavily utilize these. The Bulborb is generally considered acceptable because it is predictable, as you know that the Bulborb will almost exclusively eat you when its mouth is open, so you know to avoid the Bulborb when this happens, and it is temporary, as the Bulborb rarely has its mouth open for long and its presence on the right side of the screen in general is only limited anyway. Basically, if the opponent gets the chance to somehow throw or spike you into the Bulborb, it's regarded as a fair advantage in the match because you had plenty of time and warning to work around it and an equal chance to utilize it yourself in the reverse situation. A side note: as a temporary platform, the Bulborb also provides a helpful service for characters with poor recoveries, like the platforms on Yoshi's Island.
The rainwater on the slope is similar - predictable thanks to the rain falling, and temporary. It's also possible for almost every character to recover after being pushed by the rain, provided the player reacts quickly enough. I've done it with Ganondorf and Donkey Kong, I would know. If you don't trust your vertical recovery, aim for the ledges.
The slope being "hard to hit anything" could possibly be a legitimate concern if we had proof that any characters could currently exploit that. In my personal experience, I haven't even found that to be true, but the slope is technically a walk-off so if a character could take advantage of this it would potentially be an issue. I'd like to hear a more specific argument on it, but until then I'm not convinced of an issue here.
As for Gumpei's other concern (unvoiced here but he's talked about it,) the pellets don't really seem to be powerful enough to warrant complaint IMO. They're an item, sure, but a weak one that seems it would be hard to exploit for a significant advantage. Tortimer's Island notably has similar items (the durians) and remains a counterpick.
There's a few things to note here about Distant Planet as a counterpick. First, Got accuses it of being "cramped." This is actually a very good thing. One of the primary reasons to pick Distant Planet is because it forces people into close combat, making camping with characters like Villager and Duck Hunt more difficult. It also has a "thin" bottom, allowing characters to attack from underneath the stage. This is a VERY desirable factor in counterpicks, as it allows characters with a weak land game but a strong aerial game (think Jigglypuff, or perhaps Luigi) to maneuver around the opponent in unique and helpful ways that they couldn't execute on any of the Omega stages. Distant Planet is a stage that provides significant benefits to a certain type of character, while not harming other characters enough to guarantee a loss. It has potential to turn a 4/6 matchup into a 5/5 or 6/4 matchup. That's the type of thing we want. I would urge you to not let personal feelings about a stage get in the way of objective analysis, and acknowledge that just because a stage doesn't favor your playstyle might not mean it's a bad stage. If, under the light of unbiased analysis, the stage has serious problems that make it either incredibly unfair for a large number of characters or very difficult to hold a normal match on, then Distant Planet must be banned. But I don't feel that this is the case, and in Brawl it was widely agreed that Distant Planet was a valid counterpick stage. That's my stance in Smash 4 as well.
Also known as: okappa, houdou.
Re: Super Smash Brothers
What he said. Unless we get more convincing arguments to the contrary, Distant Planet will remain a counterpick. Practice on it some!
Updated participant list:
Burr
Kwando
Spongesonic
Wacly
Lind
Hodou
Chaos
Spyromed
Got
Holden
Ryuu
Ami
Gav
...and me
Since we've had signups open for a while now, I think I'm gonna go ahead and cap the participant count at 16. Because it's a nice number that makes the bracket simple and neat. We currently have 14 people signed up so that means two spots are still open. If you want in and aren't signed up yet, hop on that!
Once we have all our signees, I'll put up an official thread for the tournament.
Updated participant list:
Burr
Kwando
Spongesonic
Wacly
Lind
Hodou
Chaos
Spyromed
Got
Holden
Ryuu
Ami
Gav
...and me
Since we've had signups open for a while now, I think I'm gonna go ahead and cap the participant count at 16. Because it's a nice number that makes the bracket simple and neat. We currently have 14 people signed up so that means two spots are still open. If you want in and aren't signed up yet, hop on that!
Once we have all our signees, I'll put up an official thread for the tournament.
Re: Super Smash Brothers
Updated participant list:
Burr
Kwando
Spongesonic
Wacly
Lind
Hodou
Chaos
Spyromed
Got
Holden
Ryuu
Ami
Gav
Topaz
...and me
you guys I have the bracket made
when one more person signs up you can see it
Burr
Kwando
Spongesonic
Wacly
Lind
Hodou
Chaos
Spyromed
Got
Holden
Ryuu
Ami
Gav
Topaz
...and me
you guys I have the bracket made
when one more person signs up you can see it
- Bad Player
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- kwando1313
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
... I'd better not get drawn with BP. ;_;
Avatar made by Rimuu~
"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
- Bad Player
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
Ever since I started playing smash on my 3ds, the circle pad has been acting wonky, which can... totally screw me over somtimes ~_~
(obvs you shouldn't start the tournament until i get my new 3ds in a month)
(obvs you shouldn't start the tournament until i get my new 3ds in a month)
Re: Super Smash Brothers
Allow me to come play! I like playing Smash with others and am surprised I do not do it more.
- kwando1313
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
:O
OH MY GOODNESS
SPD POST
OUTSIDE OF FORUM GAMES????????
OH MY GOODNESS
SPD POST
OUTSIDE OF FORUM GAMES????????
Avatar made by Rimuu~
"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."
Re: Super Smash Brothers
Hey, it's what happens when there's not really all that much for me to talk about, when a lot of what I would ends up being handled by the xat nicely.
- Jim Raynor
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Re: Super Smash Brothers
Excellent! Glad you can join us, Spd. XD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ7NVjZ-Eyg
Golden Sun 4 coming out on the Switch with Golden Sun remakes of the first two games?
Was previously Ryuusai09.
Credit to Gumpei.
Grant Kirkhope is one of my favorite video game composer.
My favorite video game companies: Nintendo, Blizzard, former Rare, and former 3DO Company before it shut down.
Golden Sun 4 coming out on the Switch with Golden Sun remakes of the first two games?
Was previously Ryuusai09.
Credit to Gumpei.
Grant Kirkhope is one of my favorite video game composer.
My favorite video game companies: Nintendo, Blizzard, former Rare, and former 3DO Company before it shut down.
Spoiler : Favorite characters in video games :
Re: Super Smash Brothers
I'll have to put you on a waiting list, spd. If someone opts out or can't make a designated time then I'll slot you in.
...now I should get to making the thread I guess
Updated participant list:
Burr
Kwando
Spongesonic
Wacly
Lind
Hodou
Chaos
Spyromed
Got
Holden
Ryuu
Ami
Gav
Topaz
Oracle
...and me
...now I should get to making the thread I guess
Updated participant list:
Burr
Kwando
Spongesonic
Wacly
Lind
Hodou
Chaos
Spyromed
Got
Holden
Ryuu
Ami
Gav
Topaz
Oracle
...and me
- kwando1313
- Posts: 7684
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- Location: Uminari City
Re: Super Smash Brothers
Nintendo Direct about Smash for Wii U on Thursday at 3PM PST. Neat.
Avatar made by Rimuu~
"The Knight of the Iron Hammer, Vita, and the Steel Count, Graf Eisen. There's nothing in this world we can't destroy."