The Sonic the Hedgehog Discussion Thread!

[LunchPolice]

So... didja like Frontiers, Spongesonic?

[Spongesonic]

So... didja like Frontiers, Spongesonic?

...
*sigh*
Time to eat my words, I guess.

So, yeah... Frontiers is actually pretty fun. It's not perfect, definitely could use some more polish and there's room to expand, and I wouldn't say it's the big masterpiece game the series needs. That said... for the first time in a long while, I actually have some optimism about where they'll go from here.

[Trybien]

How did I miss the greatest interaction on this website from the two biggest Sonic fans I know... on my birthday nontheless...

But yeah, Frontiers is based. Though I wonder if Spongesonic would take the "Sponge" out of his name if Cosmic Shake is bad.

[Spongesonic]

Sonic is dead. Sega actually killed him. This is real.

[TimeAxis]

Sonic is dead. Sega actually killed him. This is real.

Sega stealth released an entry to the case comp.

[Spongesonic]

Welp, more Sonic content has been released, and you know what that means - it's time for Sponge to complain again!

this is a joke btw i actually have a lot of positive things to say

Well, The Final Horizon and Superstars have been pretty controversial to say the least. Opinions have ranged from "this is the best thing ever" to "Sonic was never good". What did I think of them?

Well...

I loved them.

Spoiler : The Final Horizon :

I've actually been waiting to replay Frontiers until all the DLC came out. While this section will be mostly about how the final new story stacks up compared to the rest of the game, I will say that the options to turn off air resistance and keep momentum out of a jump have greatly improved the fun of the game.

And the Spin Dash, of course. That thing is ridiculous.

As for The Final Horizon itself, I had a lot of fun with it overall, especially with the new characters. Amy was probably my favorite new character overall to play as. I liked how all her abilities were tailored to make her a beast at vertical platforming, which is something they should probably stick to with her from this point on. Her challenges I found were the most engaging compared to the other two, and they really put her new moveset to the test. If I had one complaint, it's that she only has one attack that uses her hammer, and the rest is tarot cards. I get they wanna explore that aspect of her character more since it's been so neglected in the past, but her hammer was her main gameplay identity, man...

Knuckles was the most nostalgic of the three to play for me. They basically took his moveset from the Adventure games and adapted it into the new engine. No need to fix what isn't broken, right? While playing, I was getting flashbacks to the days of flying around and looking for Emerald shards, and I just had a big goofy smile on my face. That said, I do have one complaint - his Heat Stomp has way too much of a delay. It was so much more fun to use in Adventure 2 because it instantly dropped you down, but here he hangs in the air for a few seconds and it just throws me off every time.

Tails, in keeping with tradition, completely breaks the game in two. I've heard mixed opinions on how his regular flight works, with some disappointed that it doesn't work like how it does in Adventure 1 and works more like how it did in Heroes. Honestly, I didn't mind, since I feel that's a better way to balance his flight in a 3D space. But then you unlock the Cyclone, and while it's a neat Adventure 2 callback, it also destroys any and all challenge he could've had because it lets you fly around the map without impunity. I will say, there is a joy in free flying around the map and just skipping challenges all together, but for balancing Tails in the future, they probably just... shouldn't include this.

Overall, exploring the map with the new characters was definitely the highlight of the DLC. For the most part, I really like how they were adapted to the Boost style, and while there are things I would personally change about them, they still add a breath of fresh air. This was the part they were pushing the most with the new story, and I would say it was a resounding success.

Now, onto the most controversial aspect of this DLC - the difficulty. While some say that they enjoyed the greater challenge, others say it was too much of a difficulty spike compared to the main game. I'm a bit half-and-half about this issue. When it came to the platforming, I loved the increase in challenge. The challenges with the new characters, the revamped Cyber Space levels, and the new tower climbs were my favorite sections. The new Cyber Space levels in particular put an big emphasis on momentum (imagine keeping air resistance on, lol) that made me excited about how future levels in the series will be designed.

By contrast, the new combat challenges had some issues. The new Guardian bosses were the worst part of the DLC by a longshot. They all have incredibly annoying attack patterns and are complete damage sponges. No matter which character you play as, they are an absolute miserable time. The trial challenges can also be rather finicky as well - the Perfect Parry is a change people have been requesting for a while, and while I agree the regular parry did need fixing... this is still a kids' platformer so maybe a biiiit more leniency on it wouldn't hurt...

That said, it's all worth it for the final boss of the campaign. Frontiers' regular final boss was notoriously bad, with the first half being way too easy, and the second half turning into Touhou for some reason. The new final boss is a Super Sonic fight all the way through, and it's actually pretty tough. It might just be my new favorite boss in the game.

All put together, I'd say the good definitely outweighed the bad in this DLC. The new platforming challenges, the new characters, and the new final boss all made it worth it for me, and I'm glad it was made.

Spoiler : Superstars :

This game being controversial has been a big surprise to me, because... I really don't get why. Some people say it's because it's just another 2D Sonic game (Were you expecting anything else?) and some people are complaining about the level design, which, aside from one level, I found inoffensive at worst.

I'll start with the new gameplay additions, though. I didn't get to try the co-op, but I thought the game was pretty enjoyable just playing alone as Sonic for most of the runtime. As for the new Emerald powers, I found them to be a fun new addition that really added to the game overall. A shame there were no Elemental Shields, but I suppose those in combination with the powers would be a bit too much.

As for the level design, I've seen it compared to 1 and CD a lot. I'm someone who enjoys those games more than the average person, but as someone who has played all the classics quite a bit... I really don't get the comparison. If anything, it reminded me more of a combination of 3&K (having tricky platforming segments followed by moments of high speed) and Rush (some of the high speed segments requiring quick reaction times to take advantage of an alternate route). For the most part, I enjoyed all the different levels and their gimmicks, and I found they all pretty creative.

The best level in the game for me was Pinball Carnival. Pinball and carnival levels are nothing new to Sonic, but I loved all the different little interactive elements I could mess around with, and the second act suddenly becoming a Halloween level was a nice touch. On the opposite end, Cyber Station was the worst level, and it's not even a contest. I wasn't really vibing with the gimmick of constantly switching between different forms, and the level design suddenly started punishing me for stuff I couldn't have seen coming, making me take damage or dropping me into pits. It's the only level in the game that was full to the brim with "Dimps moments".

The bosses are an often criticized part of the game, and I'm split on them. Some of them were really fun tests of skill, some of them were just okay but went on a bit too long, and others just kinda sucked. The worst one by far was once again thanks to Cyber Station, with the method of killing it being overly finicky an getting me killed more often than not. The boss of the final level was something I did really like though - it's did drag on for longer than it needed to, but I thought it was a tough but fair challenge.

The presentation was a bit of a mixed bag. The graphics are alright - it follows the trend of other 2.5D games like Mega Man 11 where it's more focused on being colorful and easily discernable than technically impressive. The soundtrack though is something I will agree with detractors on. For some reason, they have half the soundtrack made by Tee Lopes in the Sonic Mania style, while the other half is made by Jun Senoue in the Sonic 4 style. I don't know why SEGA keeps pushing this faux-Genesis music, but it just doesn't work. Just keep Jun to guitars, that's his forte.

Now, is this game better or worse than Mania? Well, it's complicated. I'd say Mania was overall more polished, but it was just a straight nostalgia trip from beginning to end, while Superstars is more of an attempt to push the Classic formula forward and has far more interesting original ideas. I'd need a bit of time to decide for myself where it places amongst my favorite Sonic games, though I'm someone who tends to favor originality when it's done well, and I think this game was very fun for the most part.

All-in-all, while The Final Horizon and Superstars aren't without faults, I overall thought the positives far outweighed the negatives. I will be returning to them at some point in the future no doubt, and they get a recommendation from me.

[SuperAj3]

I've been playing Superstars and have had more positives than negatives so far.

Spoiler : My summary :

Art wise I like it. Bright colours, lovely 3D work for the characters and thank god new stages that aren't green hill or chemical plant (although Press Factory does give Chemical Plant vibed). The stage backgrounds do feel like they were made for Sonic Runners instead with how simple they are, and it's noticeable in latter areas like Golden Capital.

Some of the latter stages feel like they drag on and repeat elements. Golden Capital was so frustrating. Both the Pig boss being nigh impossible to hit with 0 rings, and the Fang fight dragging on so much.

Bosses are oddly scripted which isn't very Sonic. Getting a second hit on a boss when a window appears usually does nothing and sometimes hurts you even if the enemy is open and unguarded. It just slugs down the game and doesn't reward you for being quick enough to get an extra hit in.

Emerald Powers ending early if you're hit feels kinda cheap to me too. They're like wisps but without that protection. I get why because you can use so many. They also don't serve much use in the stages outside of burst and vision.

Controls are fine. Some odd choices with how far you're flung back when hit causes me issues though you don't get that short invincibility when you recovet from being flung back to just tank through like in past games.

Overall though I'm happy we finally got multiple playable characters, unlockables and generally all the staples missing from Sonic games the past decade or so. Feels like they're getting the fundamentals back and now they need to fine-tune gameplay to match Mania's balance.