So, how about that Apollo Justice.

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Bitvid64
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So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by Bitvid64 »

I"m not sure if I'm allowed to make something like this, but I honestly have no one to talk to about this, plus I want my real first dissection to be simple.

What's the PW community's thoughts of Apollo Justice, the game I mean?
For the most part people seem to be split when talking about it as far I've seen. Like do the majority hate it, or are just "eh"?

If so...how come? Like why do people ( amusing the popular opinion is negative) hate it so?

Spoilers are allowed now, just beaten the game while I was sick the other day. So feel free to go more into detail of why say: 4-4 sucks in your mind
Last edited by Bitvid64 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by enigma »

Actually, at least on this site, I see a LOT of people who really liked Apollo Justice. I mean, I personally consider it the best of the AA games. So.... Yeah.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by LunchPolice »

It's actually my favourite game in the series. It feels the most polished and consistently good with no outstandingly weak trials in the game. It also does a good job of feeling connected to the original trilogy while also not being afraid to be its own beast. I love it!
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by Bitvid64 »

Huh, didn't expect to get these kind of responses.

Then again this isn't the youtube comment section, which is kind of where I saw the spit of opinion regarding AJ.

As for me: Well it's been more if a mix, since unfortunately I was slightly spoiled with same of the surprises i.e
Spoiler : :
Turcy being Wright's daughter, a small spoiler yes, but one of many others.
With that said however, that doesn't mean it's the games's fault mor did it gave me a ( so far) negative impression on the game. It just made things sort of slow, on my end if that makes any sense. If anything, I find it to be alright, not the best one in what I played so far. ( haven't beat AJ yet nor have i gotten to the 3ds one, nor have I played Investigations).

Though makes me wonder what were people's reaction to Aj in the first place. ( Before you ask, I played the first 3 games....last year. I knew about them before hand and I did beat the first one like in 2012. but not fully since I never got around beating the dlc case that was on the wii. I got around to the other 2 games on the 3ds.) Since I wasn't aware of it's existence till last year.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by energizerspark »

I don't really remember too much of AJ, probably because I played it about 6 years ago while blindly following a walkthrough, but it holds a place for me as the first Ace Attorney game I played.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by NihilisticNinja »

Not a huge fan of AJ, but it isn't bad, and I think it's grown on me as time as gone on. I used to HATE it, but I think a lot of that is just 4-4. Though 4-3 has some really dumb stuff too, and I don't like Klavier as a prosecutor much. But the protagonists are decently characterized and there are some fun side characters that pop up every now and again. So, while it's definitely not my favorite, I like a couple other the games less, for sure.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by kwando1313 »

My opinion of AJ is 4-1 is great, 4-2 is decent, 4-3 is meh, and 4-4 is really bad.

(Still better than DD tho)
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by DLA »

I like 4-1, think 4-2 is alright, hate 4-3 with a burning passion, and just dislike 4-4. Not as big of a mess as Dual Destinies, but still a mess nonetheless. Not my least favorite game in the series, but I can't say I like it very much.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by Gumpei »

I consider it one of the worst in the series. Probably not the absolute worst, because I still think it's the last game to really nail the traditional "AA style" and the writing and characters maintain that same kind of indescribable charm that the original trilogy does. Just too bad the plot is trite. It has the best tutorial case in the entire series and then the rest of the cases are complete crap and squander the endless potential immediately given by the phenomenal first case. More than anything they've ever done in any of the games, the fact that they decided to go with such a frustratingly uninteresting and anticlimactic direction for AJ's story will forever befuddle me. I don't hate it, though; I just like it enough to know they could have done better.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by TheDoctor »

Apollo Justice was the first Ace Attorney game I played, so I'll probably always have that special feeling of nostalgia when I play it. Case 1 was amazing, and hands down, the best tutorial case in the series. I didn't much care for case 2, but that was because I loved the first case so much that when they introduced the investigation mechanics, I was a little put off because it was so different and boring compared to the courtroom segments. Plus, I didn't like having to start things off by chasing down a panty snatcher; that was just weird, even for me. And the only memorable non-reoccurring characters in that case were Eldoon and Stickler. And Stickler wasn't memorable in a good way.

I didn't hate case 3 as much as most people did, mostly because I liked the non-reoccurring characters in this one better. Yes, it was really dumb to blame Machi for killing someone with a gun that would have likely broken every bone in his body had he actually shot it (makes me wonder if anyone in court had ever read Sherlock Holmes before), but it's an issue that can be easily solved if they just made the gun less powerful. I don't think it would have changed much, other than making the case look less idiotic on the prosecution's side.

Case 4 was good, up until the final day in court. Before that, I wanted to strangle Brushel with his own necktie, assuming he didn't accidentally beat me to the punch, but I found the rest of the first day, the flashback trial, and the MASON system to be rather enjoyable. After that, I believe there was one Perceive segment, one evidence present, then the rest of the game was on autopilot. Lame, Capcom. Lame.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by Bitvid64 »

TheDoctor wrote:Apollo Justice was the first Ace Attorney game I played, so I'll probably always have that special feeling of nostalgia when I play it. Case 1 was amazing, and hands down, the best tutorial case in the series. I didn't much care for case 2, but that was because I loved the first case so much that when they introduced the investigation mechanics, I was a little put off because it was so different and boring compared to the courtroom segments. Plus, I didn't like having to start things off by chasing down a panty snatcher; that was just weird, even for me. And the only memorable non-reoccurring characters in that case were Eldoon and Stickler. And Stickler wasn't memorable in a good way.

I didn't hate case 3 as much as most people did, mostly because I liked the non-reoccurring characters in this one better. Yes, it was really dumb to blame Machi for killing someone with a gun that would have likely broken every bone in his body had he actually shot it (makes me wonder if anyone in court had ever read Sherlock Holmes before), but it's an issue that can be easily solved if they just made the gun less powerful. I don't think it would have changed much, other than making the case look less idiotic on the prosecution's side.

Case 4 was good, up until the final day in court. Before that, I wanted to strangle Brushel with his own necktie, assuming he didn't accidentally beat me to the punch, but I found the rest of the first day, the flashback trial, and the MASON system to be rather enjoyable. After that, I believe there was one Perceive segment, one evidence present, then the rest of the game was on autopilot. Lame, Capcom. Lame.
What made the last trial so bad? Now, I don't mean the whole episode, I mean like you said the "final day in court"? you can say spoilers since now I have beaten the game...and well I may see where your coming from already
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

Say whatever you will about Apollo Justice, it had the courage to take risks, vastly unlike DD which made a point of it to chicken out the SECOND it seemed like they were about to do anything controversial or interesting. And I would much rather have a game willing to take risks than one that's too afraid to.

AJ:
Wright losing his badge? That's a risk.
Wright's characterization in general, in stark contrast to his previous self? Another huge risk.
Taking Phoenix out of the drivers seat and writing off so many major characters to be replaced with new cast members? HUGE Risk.
The entire premise for Case 4? You can certainly argue it wasn't a risk that paid off, but you really can't dispute that the entire premise for it was rather adventurous and different.

Meanwhile, DD...
Keeps Phoenix as the PC for a majority of the game despite the plot having NOTHING to do with him. Why? Because they're far too afraid of offending their old fans who didn't like playing as Apollo.
Treats every killer as unsympathetic scum and keeps things black and white. PW and pals are the good guys, the killers are the bad guys. Because we can't possibly have ambiguous killers. Heaven forbid, we might cause arguments within the fandom! (Case in point: Case 3. The whole point of Means was to be a moral extremist. Then he's the killer and he's just lolEvil for the sake of it. Frustrating. And yes, DLC case is an exception to this rule, the point still stands for the main game.)
Goes out of it's way to paint a rather horrifying picture, only to go absolutely nowhere with it. It's implied (Okay, I don't even want to say implied, more like outright stated) that Athena was a victim of child abuse and unethical experiments. They did this specifically so she would have a believable motive for killing Metis, and even went out of their way to show a rather chilling cutscene of a 12 year old murderer... BUT LOL NOPE IT'S K GUYS IT WAS REALLY THE PHANTOM ALL ALONG SWEET LITTLE ATHENA WOULDN'T HURT A FLY. Facepalm. Yeah, we couldn't POSSIBLY risk something like this in a game designed to mass appeal to AA fans!
The WHOLE CONCEPT BEHIND THE PHANTOM IN THE FIRST PLACE. It was all done in the least offensive way possible to step on as few toes as they could to making a major character the mastermind of the game. OH NOES FULBRIGHT WAS REALLY EVIL? LOLJK IT'S FINE FULBRIGHT WAS GOOD UNTIL THE BAD MAN KILLED HIM AND TOOK HIS IDENTITY! HOW MEAN! :(

There's another huge, overarching complaint I have with DD as a whole, and I GUESS I could bring it up here as this is a topic about comparing AJ to other AA games, but I won't because meh. The only point I wanted to highlight was the risk factor, and how AJ just cares much less than DD does. PM me if you REALLY want to know my other key complaint with DD.

And do you know the worst part of it? Thanks to the failure of AJ and the success of DD, Capcom is now horrified of taking risks and the series is headed down a stale, bland, stagnant path that will never again be adventurous enough to do the sorts of things AJ or even GK2 were not afraid to do with it's plotlines. To them, bland, straight, happy-go-lucky stories where all works out in the end is all they need to do to keep the fandom happy, and they can churn out any old hot garbage and slap Phoenix's face on it as long as the players get to play as him and as long as the mysteries are somewhat intriguing. There may be solid aspects to AA6. The mysteries and characters may be solid, just like they were for the most part in DD. But mark my words, the plotline in the main franchise of Ace Attorney games will never be interesting or engaging ever again. And we've Dual Destinies to thank for it, and Apollo Justice to apologize to. Had the risks it taken been appreciated more, we wouldn't have found ourselves in this predicament.

I'm just a little bitter about the direction the series has taken. Maybe you can tell. I might have been a bit subtle about it.


P.S: Hi Gumpei. You still need to play PW vs PL.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by enigma »

Idunno. PL vs PW felt like it took a few decent/interesting risks. At the very least it felt fresh and creative. And it sounds like DGS does too.

Except we probably won't ever get that one. Sooooo... yeah.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

Two things.

A: PW vs PL is not part of the main AA storyline, they're fine with taking risks in spinoffs and the like.

B: Seems to me like it's far, far too early to be giving up on DGS. I mean, come on, the game's been out for two months, and I really have to question how a French rep would know anything about a English release at this point in time. And even then he went on to clarify there were "no plans at this time" to localize the game. This is nowhere even CLOSE to a GK2 situation. Yeah, I'd be worried if we went for like six months without hearing a peep, but it seems to me like people are just giving up way too easily.


Apologies for the off-topicness, just felt the need to clarify.
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Re: So, how about that Apollo Justice.

Post by enigma »

I was more making a joke about how silly the AA-team and such have been recently. Sorry. ^_^"
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