[T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

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Blackrune
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Blackrune »

goldthunderbird999 wrote:
Spoiler : Hmm... :
Was the flashlight actually a part of the mirror trick? I mean, Rei was right about all the other random things...
Spoiler : :
Yes. Considering there had to be a fair bit of light for the mirror trick to work, it was used to provide some extra illumination.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Ferdielance »

It's one of the rules of writing science fiction and fantasy: You can make your reader swallow one porcupine, but you can't make them swallow two.
- Orson Scott Card
Curiosity of a Turnabout (CoaT) is a risk-taking, genuinely thrilling case with one Very Ill-Advised Twist (VIAT).

It is immediately obvious that CoaT owes something to Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney. But although CoaT and that game share thematic similarities - a city of supernatural power ruled over by a distant, patriarchal figure - they diverge in crucial ways. For one thing, magic of a sort is not only legalin CoaT, but even woven into the structure of society. If you have magic, you might as well use it, and if you're using it, you might as well use it a lot.

Working from this premise, CoaT engages in the fun kind of worldbuilding, sketching a consistent and absorbing setting. CoaT's world has centuries of implied history, but we're mostly spared information dumps, with the exception of an unwieldy tome of rules. Without indulging in an excess of backstory and lore, Blackrule sets the atmosphere (though the VIAT compromises that a little). If I had to summarize what CoaT's world is about, I'd say, in spoiler tags:
Spoiler : CoaT's world in a few sentences :
While the remnants of humanity huddle together in a fragile safe haven, inexplicable monsters prowl the wastes and threaten gruesome death to anyone who ventures outside. Inside is repression and stasis; outside is chaos and death. People can do amazing things with their magic powers, but are a little confused by bicycles.

This isn't an entirely nice place to live, and that's as it should be. The world of magic should never be strictly better than our own. And it should be consistent, which this one is, except for the VIAT.
Magical people can be a little unreal, but they should still be recognizably human. Fortunately, while Blackrune makes no pretense of psychological brilliance, in CoaT he's written characters of a higher quality than usual. Everyone has a motive for what they do. If their behavior is sometimes a little too convenient, and the pains they take a little too absurd, that's standard practice in the genre. What matters is that, for once, I want to spend a bit more time with them. I don't find myself hoping to just shut them up, and I even care a little about them.

(Now, one character, related to the VIAT, seriously needs a rewrite. And maybe another could use a little more depth. If we want to pick away a bit more, the protagonist could have a more distinct voice and be more convincing as an adoptive parent. But I don't load up a Blackrune mystery for the depth of characterization, and a likable sidekick and a few charismatic figures can do a lot to bring a case to life.)

If, so far, I've focused on the setting and characterization, it is because there's little I can do to talk about the gameplay without spoilers. It's more than satisfactory, nudging the player forward steadily but urgently. Almost every puzzle is justified in some way, and every confrontation and contradiction seems mostly well-planned, especially given the severe constraints laid on these testimonies by the plot. The main character's ability comes in to play in a sensible and well-integrated way, too, which is a bonus.

The little touches of fairness and payer empathy that usually owe to good playtesting are also present. Alternative solutions are often recognized and responded to, and most of the time the puzzles are worded fairly. Even in the few testimonies with extra uncaught contradictions, the dialogue usually draws the player's attention in the correct direction. All in all, CoaT makes it clear that Blackrune has abandoned the idea of difficulty just for the sake of difficulty, and instead has given us reasonably challenging puzzles that require the player to think actively, but not to read minds or rely on meta-reading of the genre.

CoaT also demonstrates a few effective ways to use Thought Routes: to recap the logic for the player, to stick together bits of reasoning that don't fit neatly in testimony, and even to delineate character. These sequenes employ penalties, dead ends l, and red herrings effectively. Admittedly, one also demonstrates a weakness of Thought Routes, which is that they can be used to paper over shaky logic and unconvincing reasoning, but that one relates, as usual, to the VIAT.

One especially satisfying aspect of CoaT's mystery is that, unlike Turnabout Pairs and Two Sides of the Same Turnabout, there are no absolute dead-end false solutions. (TP and TSotST have at least one of those each.) All the false starts and gimmicks lead eventually to a better understanding of the true answer; the player is not forced to wander down a rabbit hole without gaining any real benefit. And given how convoluted the real answer is, that's a pretty impressive feat!

(This is not to say all of the tricks are equally good - they never are, even in the best detective novels. One major trick seems a little underspecified and underclued, involving highly precise positioning of witnesses and props. Even after knowing the answer, I wasn't satisfied about the relative positions of those involved and the realism of the trick. But the questions to the player are still mostly well-laid out, especially compared to prior attempts at tricks of similar complexity on AAO.)

Even the VIAT itself is not entirely bad. It avoids a common, problematic genre failing, and it gives us a dramatic ending, even if it undercuts a lot of the other work the game has done. The VIAT's also the sort of twist I'd personally find tremendouslt fun to write, and it certainly iseems like Blackrune enjoyed writing it. And the twist that comes after the VIAT, the very last twist of the game, is fun and deepens the relationship between the protagonist and his sidekick in a way that ultimately worked for me.

In the end, I finished CoaT grinning and satisfied. I'd like to see more cases set in this world. I'd definitely recommend it to newcomers, especially if they liked PLvAA, and I think it's a solid contender for featuring.
"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by epicethan127 »

I couldn't help but notice Broocevelt put "do not use, will be used in project" on his music

And I'm pretty sure you aren't Broocevelt
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by enigma »

And I'm pretty sure the credits specifically state that Rune got permission to use those tracks, so... Uh... Looks like we're at an impasse.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Blackrune »

Well, just to confirm:
No worries. I asked him and got his permission to use those tracks.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Declaro »

Three quick questions:
Would Linus and Orpheus happen to be descended from Lana/Ema and Apollo? Rei makes it fairly clear this is much later in the AA timeline.
Spoiler : :
Which of the two endings (Join/Don't Join Porter's revolution) is canon?
Spoiler : :
In the final confrontation with Porter, why couldn't Maxwell just drop Porter and Kat through the floor? Skye already pointed out he could do that with the falling corpse.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by epicethan127 »

Okay, that fixes it
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by RashFaustinho »

Oh my god.
A new Blackrune trial, and i didn't knew there was one for almost an entire MONTH. My fault, I have to check this forum more frequently.

Anyway, let's start with the simple stuff: The trial was good. Really really really good. Like all the others you made so far, that's the reason you're one of my favourite trial makers. I hardly get disappointed from your stuff.

I have to make an apologize, though: I was taken so much from the plot and was so curious about what the heck was happening, that i played ALL the trial in a single run. That was quite a mistake, since it was... exhausting, to say at least.
That's what I get for not considering the warning at the first post about this trial being long.

I love how you builded the "world" of this case. The spell mechanichs, the monsters, the Safe Heaven, all works perfectly, and I'm sure it's no easy task being able to think up a fantasy world of this kind from the scratch.
Spoiler : :
The SPELLs themselves were well merged with the gameplay. I loved both Linus' ability to combine statements, and the Prosecutor's ability to hear the lies of the witnesses. It really took the case to a different level, making it unique. Wonderful job here too.

I loved the "sidekick" too, continuosly making reference to other stuffs and games, it was fun and actually really, really helpful in courtroom.
About that: Thanks for putting a "testimony-reminder" in one of the cross-examinations with Talia and Maxwell. I always get stuck in this kind of trials when it comes to presenting a profile because of a previous Witness Statement, so getting the option to re-read them was really helpful.

I also loved the story, as I said earlier, I was so curious about what the heck happened that I played the entire case in one session, spending 6-7 hours at least. I wanted answers. I NEEDED THEM!

Overall, the case was awesome. Just as usual. Let's get to the "questions and doubts" part:

Talia said that she didn't immediately called the police after the fact, and that's how she fooled the prosecutor's ability to perceive lies. However, wasn't it stated at the beginning of the trial that avoiding the point of the question wouldn't have fooled him?
He made an example by saying "If I ask someone he is the culprit, they can't answer like if i'm referring to a completly different crime". Isn't that the same with the question made to Talia? He clearly was referring to what happened right after the crime, and yet she fooled the question by referring to a more ample time-frame.
Or maybe i'm just overthinking this. I dunno.

I'm quite confused from the fact that Adrian didn't found any SPELL traces on the body when the Apprentice clearly put his mark on it. It is revealed that its spell doesn't leave a trace that can be found by Adrian's power, but why is that?
Yes, the spell the victim casted on himself is redirected, so it can make sense it doesn't leave traces, but Adrian should've been still able that the victim was marked by a spell, the defendant's one... right?
Not sure if I lost/forgot a plot point here.

As for the "final reveal", that was quite a mess.
I won't lie, PLOT-WISE (so, i'm talking just about a "story" perspective, i'm not saying what you've done doesn't make sense) i would've preferred if the actual Outcast from 70 years ago was still alive and was actually in the safe heaven, i just think the idea would've been "cooler" than this brain-swap confusing mess with her daughter, but oh well. I guess the final showdown had to be something as less obvious as possible :P
I found a few typos here and there, buuuuuut... i forgot to take note of them. Sorry.

Also, sometimes the sprites just overlap one over the another. The first time happened during
Spoiler : :
Karan Kat's second or third testimony, i don't remember which one now, where Maxwell just jumps in adding statements to the Crossexamination.
The second one during the "1st" ending. Linus bench sprites sometimes was over the witnesses', for some reason.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

Why does nobody tell me when a new Blackrune trial comes out.

I mean, I get you don't want me around but sheesh, I'd tell all the cool kids whenever DWaM made a thing.

Normally I'd play right away but I'm doing a CoI stream-playthrough so uh

that'll take a while
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by ventuswings »

Really fun trial! It was fun learning how the world works and how it figures into the mystery, although one particular trick
Spoiler : :
regarding the cross
seemed... too unnecessarily crazy.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by ParrotMan01 »

I must be unlucky or something. I'm trying to load up this case(and a few others actually), but I'm having no such luck. It keeps timing out. I'm using my desktop and firefox of course and my connection and firewall settings are fine.
Is it just me?
I played some of this case some months ago and was enjoying it so far. I wanted to finish what I started(or start over if I lost my progress).
Again, just passing through...
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Tiagofvarela »

ParrotMan01 wrote:I must be unlucky or something. I'm trying to load up this case(and a few others actually), but I'm having no such luck. It keeps timing out. I'm using my desktop and firefox of course and my connection and firewall settings are fine.
Is it just me?
I played some of this case some months ago and was enjoying it so far. I wanted to finish what I started(or start over if I lost my progress).
What occurred was a change of domain. This likely has or will affect you in other trials and links of all sorts.
aceattorney.sparklin.org/player.php?trial_id=84718
should now be
aaonline.fr/player.php?trial_id=84718
A Laggy Turnabout ★
A Batty Turnabout ★
A Tricky Turnabout ★
Upcoming: A Worldly Turnabout, A Courtly Turnabout, A Clumsy Turnabout, A Needy Turnabout
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Blackrune »

Whoops.
Link in OP is now updated.
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

so i finally finished it and uh

and uh

and uh...

....and the dragon's turnabout feels like a very normal and unelaborate case right now
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Re: [T][CE][DGS♫][SoJ♫] Curiosity of a Turnabout ●

Post by Lex! »

I don't have sufficient knowledge in English to write a complete analysis of this trial, but wow. This trial was really something. I really got involved in the whole trial, and the way everything goes into place in this universe was... great. Certainly one of my favorite AAO trial ever.
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