[T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

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SuperAj3
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by SuperAj3 »

Trybien wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:07 pmKind of wanted to share my thoughts a bit.
Spoiler : :
While on the surface I get its a cliche, but I feel like the reason kinda comes down to the ahistorical fiction genre. The judge and Rodrigo both being radical believers of ideologies that was losing favor with the public due to their own extremist actions. The sorts of trauma and pain they caused only naturally leads to an equal and opposite reaction where those they hurt would be more than willing to enact the same.

And given the themes GD explored in this how systemic oppression leads to corrupted worldviews and contradictory behaviour, I feel as though some of the horror of this world would have been lost if they either changed their ways or got off easy.
Spoiler : :
I get that. I more read this case as a 'wake up call' for people who may not realise prejudices and to learn how it can affect people systematically. An epilogue IMO would work well as an educative tool to say "this is how such behaviour has been successfully handled in the past". The idea of people getting revenge on their oppressors isn't really how progress was made. It was done more by how Billy was written, as an activist. In that case, Rodrigo going to prison works, but it's the societal change that lead to this which showed the justice being done.

The Witch's story parallels Venus Xtravaganza who was a subject of the documentary 'Paris is Burning' (cw there, death caused by a transphobic attack), and the burning of the library reminded me of Stonewall.

Basically there are parallels here to real life stuff and it would've been neat to educate on that. That's why I shared those recommendations
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by Trybien »

SuperAj3 wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:29 pm
Trybien wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:07 pmKind of wanted to share my thoughts a bit.
Spoiler : :
While on the surface I get its a cliche, but I feel like the reason kinda comes down to the ahistorical fiction genre. The judge and Rodrigo both being radical believers of ideologies that was losing favor with the public due to their own extremist actions. The sorts of trauma and pain they caused only naturally leads to an equal and opposite reaction where those they hurt would be more than willing to enact the same.

And given the themes GD explored in this how systemic oppression leads to corrupted worldviews and contradictory behaviour, I feel as though some of the horror of this world would have been lost if they either changed their ways or got off easy.
Spoiler : :
I get that. I more read this case as a 'wake up call' for people who may not realise prejudices and to learn how it can affect people systematically. An epilogue IMO would work well as an educative tool to say "this is how such behaviour has been successfully handled in the past". The idea of people getting revenge on their oppressors isn't really how progress was made. It was done more by how Billy was written, as an activist. In that case, Rodrigo going to prison works, but it's the societal change that lead to this which showed the justice being done.

The Witch's story parallels Venus Xtravaganza who was a subject of the documentary 'Paris is Burning' (cw there, death caused by a transphobic attack), and the burning of the library reminded me of Stonewall.

Basically there are parallels here to real life stuff and it would've been neat to educate on that. That's why I shared those recommendations
Spoiler : :
I don't have any issue fundamentally with whatn are saying. I'm pretty anti-extremism and a pacifist myself. I think were we differ is what we consider an appropriate response and the characterisation of the revolutionaries.

Yes, the actions and behaviors of the revolutionaries are not something I'd condone in a vacuum and did make me feel uncomfortable, its a but of a different story when we are talking about a class of people actively being targeted and murdered by the state.

While on one hand I do worry how this sort of resolution could speak to people given the analogues to modern day issues, Esperanza and Rodrigo's fates are ultimately consequences of specific actions their warped worldviews led them to. While yes Esperanza's is directly that of revenge, I wouldn't say the story glorifies it. More that its just another facet of the turmoil and anger that Esperanza's actions caused. Especially given how violent and dangerous the world already became due to her actions.

I will agree that I'd like to see more in terms of differentiating and educating on the appropriateness of revolutionary action. Though that seems like a tough balance to achieve given how dark and corrupt GD established this world. It could have been just as easy to imply it was wrong for the people to fight against the deaths of minorities.
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by Awsome2464 »

See, this is one of those moments where I want to play it, but simultaneously don't. In this instance, my biggest gripe with Spirit of Justice is the constant baseless "bigotry" against the protagonist(s) making me uncomfortable. So a fan case that deals with actual bigotry is probably going to make me feel even worse, no matter how well-written the case and/or ending is. But from what I've been seeing, this is a great case, so I'll take everyone's word on it as of now (unless someone can convince me that it's not that harsh)
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by GuardianDreamer »

Awsome2464 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:34 am See, this is one of those moments where I want to play it, but simultaneously don't. In this instance, my biggest gripe with Spirit of Justice is the constant baseless "bigotry" against the protagonist(s) making me uncomfortable. So a fan case that deals with actual bigotry is probably going to make me feel even worse, no matter how well-written the case and/or ending is. But from what I've been seeing, this is a great case, so I'll take everyone's word on it as of now (unless someone can convince me that it's not that harsh)
This is difficult for me to respond to since I actually haven't played Spirit of Justice. That said, my beta-tester Naomi found that it had more in common with The Great Ace Attorney games and how Ryunosuke is treated in those games. Having seen the reactions of a few people who read this story I'd say exercise caution and avoid it if the subject matter feels like it would upset you since I've gotten some strong (though positive) reactions, I don't know you well enough to judge whether you would get something from this story or not, but I do want people to stay safe.

I 100% understand if you choose not to play this case, there's so much fiction out there in the world that you can freely pick and choose what you want to experience. I do think the story can be rather harsh intentionally since the subject matter is very important to me, so yeah, if that sounds like not your bag then I understand. The content warnings are there for a reason.
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by risefromtheashes »

Awsome2464 wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:34 am See, this is one of those moments where I want to play it, but simultaneously don't. In this instance, my biggest gripe with Spirit of Justice is the constant baseless "bigotry" against the protagonist(s) making me uncomfortable. So a fan case that deals with actual bigotry is probably going to make me feel even worse, no matter how well-written the case and/or ending is. But from what I've been seeing, this is a great case, so I'll take everyone's word on it as of now (unless someone can convince me that it's not that harsh)
The bigotry is very very very real and accurate to real life, both in how it's delivered and what the bigotry is about, so it may make you -- similarly -- very very very uncomfortable. I'd suggest looking over the CWs (I believe GD also said something about those in their responses), but if you feel like you might be up to playing the case, I would recommend it -- just with the discretion that you can always quit if it gets too much.

It's a very very very good case.
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by DeathByAutoscroll »

Played it, pretty good.

If you're on the fence about playing it or not, play it! The TW are real; however don't let them scare you off from playing a really impactful and meaningful case.

The writing on display is wonderful, and while it didn't stab me though the heart and twist to close emotions like other people's experience, the blade may yet be poisoned (and will probably update this post).
Spoiler : There shouldn't be any major spoilers in here, however just in case :
The characters are extremely well written, with even the monsters feelings like they were human at one point, or that they have a misguided reasoning for believing their actions to be right. I found the portrayal of certain characters to be sympathetic, yet while they seemed unredeemable there was maybe hope for them to save themselves.

Gameplay is relatively simple compared to other AA cases, but thats not the point. The gameplay that is there is very much built around player QoL (like the ability to skip the Co Consel conversation!).

There is not really a negative thing that could be said about this case, and the tiny nitpicks that are there didn't detract from the experience.

Once again go play it if you're on the fence, or standing on the other side of the fence considering climbing it, or even if you weren't aware there was a fence in the first place.
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by Double KO »

wow no wonder this case was in the super scary competition i scrolled to the credits and i got jumpscared by my own name, the sobering reminder that me and my stuff does not live in a vacuum will keep me up at night for weeks so scary

good and cool game
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by GuardianDreamer »

Truly seeing your handle in random places is the most scary thing of all...

Glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for making those sprites! I go into it a bit in the author's note, but seeing those sprites ended up changing the character concept a bit (for the better, I think), and now I can't imagine it any other way.
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by CodingAnt »

Finally played this case! It's pretty good.
Spoiler : Some thoughts :
This is a story of an unjust system where everything seems to be against you, and it does a very good job evoking a sense of helplessness. Every character you meet, with the exception of Billy and Dot's doppelganger, either directly states or indirectly implies that they want you dead. The case against you is very weak, but that doesn't stop you from having to fight with all your might to prove your innocence. And even when you do, it's not like Dot gets to go back to their ordinary life. They're forced to repent by hunting down other assumed witches. Of course, Dot doesn't take that lying down, and opts instead to stand up for people wrongfully accused like them by becoming The Doting Witch. I like this ending for Dot, and it feels very in-character for them, especially after they got more and more rebellious during the trial itself. As seems to be a pattern, the protagonist is easily the strongest part of GD's case once again.

The other characters work well. The judge and prosecutor are awful people in a way that makes sense for people in their positions in society, and the farmer is very much your standard cranky old guy. None of them are explored particularly deeply, but it doesn't feel like they had to be for the point of the story. The cleaner/merchant is much more nuanced, having killed Dot's doppelganger and trying to convince herself that it was justified. I don't think she was completely at fault, as she mainly did it because of a society that convinced her that all witches are evil, but I also think the story condemning her was a good choice overall. Billy was there, and he was OK. The story would've functioned fine without him, but it was nice to have someone actually on Dot's side.

I have a few criticisms, and a few nitpicks in a couple areas. A couple things that were purposeful design choices but I still don't really vibe with: the logic is really, really easy, and the presentation lacks pretty much all shakes, flashes, and sound effects. I do appreciate an easy case every now and then, but I didn't feel like I had to think much at all... And without those presentation flourishes the case felt kinda bland. Feel free to ignore these, though, they're just personal preference. My real critique is that many of your points feel overdone. Characters will repeat themselves often, and Dot's internal monologue gets in the way of the case standing on its own. Often, the prosecutor or the judge will say something obviously messed up and Dot will go "(Wow, none of that is true, you're an awful person.)" But you already made that perfectly clear! There's no need to tell me something you've already shown. There's a case to be made that this is just establishing Dot's thoughts on the matter, but then... Why do they feel the need to do it over and over again and again? Just once works fine. I swear, another "(I'll bite my tongue.)" and I might go insane.

There's a couple mysteries I expected to get solved but didn't. Dot's past is never elaborated upon, for one. It seems to just be used as a part of the case against them. But if you weren't going to explain it anyway, I think it would've been stronger if Dot was an established resident of San Ignacio since birth, and it was just their "tomboyishness" that made people suspicious of them. Additionally, nothing related to Dot's doppelganger is explained. I think the implication is supposed to be that he's a witch, but... well, they didn't seem to know why the two of them looked the same either. I don't know if there was ever a plan to explain any of this, but as it stands the case feels incomplete without it.

Overall, though, this case is quite well done. It gets its point across without much fluff, and introduces a world I got surprisingly invested in at times. I'm a little guilty of viewing it more as a footnote to the majesty that is MMLW, but it still stands alone as a great case. I would highly recommend.
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Re: [T][CE] Malleus Maleficarum: The Witch of San Ignacio ●

Post by ZekromFan57 »

After seeing this case get mentioned so often in the Discord, I can confidently say it lives up to the hype. I give some initial thoughts at the end of my playthrough of this case, but I have some additional thoughts after ruminating and reading the author's notes.
Spoiler : :
These'll be kinda rambly, in no particular order.

This case had a really good twist culprit. I wasn't expecting the nervous sweeper to actually have committed the crime. But she's a really well-developed character and her moment of reveal was very unexpected. I enjoy cases with twist culprits so this gives it bonus points.

The reverse-twist of the doppelganger being completely unrelated to Dot is intriguing. Though I find the fact that they were wearing the same exact clothes to be a biiiit of a stretch. Is there any reason for this? I wouldn't assume it was a common type of clothing given the Judge and Alonzo's reactions. It does require a bit of suspension of disbelief. It could be then that the doppelganger is really a witch, but didn't communicate with Dot in their dream. That's my best theory so far.

While the thought of there potentially being a bad ending (from Dot's execution, to being betrayed by Billy, to Dot herself having some kind of hidden secret) was in the back of my mind, I'm ultimately glad of the more hopeful, positive ending in this case. In that way, it works as a subversion of expectations... while subverting the expectation of what a subverted expectation would be here, a bad ending (if any of that makes sense). Unfortunately, it's only an alternate history, but still it can give us hope for a more tolerant tomorrow.

I stand by the points I made at the end of my video, namely that I don't actually mind the "easyness" of this case. After all, it makes it more accessible, which in turn allows more people to experience this story (and it should be experienced by many people).

The social commentary is impeccable and is absolutely the best part of this case. I'm fortunate enough to not have an identity which would be considered "heresy" in San Ignacio, yet it would be extremely ignorant to say transphobia isn't rife in (so-called) modern human society. Nothing exemplifies it more clearly than what happened today, with the (unelected) Prime Minister of my own country making a transphobic comment during the PMQs while the mother of a teenage trans girl who was murdered in a hate crime last year was present. At the very least Sunak's, like Alonzo's, bigotry is on full display so there can be no doubt. It may not affect me personally, but this kind of needless hatred makes my blood boil thinking of it. So I really appreciate the approach this case took to delivering its message, a message that is still very much needed in our society. It's very clear that much of this is drawn from the author's personal experiences, and it has clearly struck a chord with many players who have struggled with their own identities, as I could tell after reading the other messages in this thread.

Dot is an amazing protagonist. I gave my rationale in my closing thoughts of the video, but I'll add that Dot's final answer about their identity being that they're not sure, but that's alright is an added stroke of genius. It reminds me of the ending monologue given by Butters in the South Park episode "Cartman Sucks". People try to fit everything into neat little boxes, and thus don't tolerate people who are "confused", or "uncertain". But why is that even a problem in the first place? I experienced this kind of thing myself with the amount of times I was asked what I planned on doing with my life. My only answer was that I wasn't sure. Still not sure, in fact. (I know it's quite a different situation to someone who is confused about their gender identity, but it's the closest comparison I can make).

The pacing was good. I didn't get bored of this case or want to take a break once. I recorded the first three videos with only a 5-10 minute break between each to get a drink and then immidiately got back to it, only stopping when it got too late in the night. That alone is testament to how good this case was.

The other characters were all great. Their distinct personalities made it easy to voice them in the videos. Props to you, GuardianDreamer, for developing 4 seperate absolutely rotten characters with distinctive personality traits within one case. Each one having a different brand of bullsh*t to deliver onto the player.
Brilliant case. I can't wait to play more GuardianDreamer cases in the future.
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