Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to use

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SwagmaWampyr
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

Jean Of mArc wrote:Oh, just so you're aware, the second spoiler image seems to be a broken link...
Eh...? Works fine on this end...
BB, please check your PM. I've sent you my input on the CCE.
Thanks, I'll add that to the post later and we'll see if we can't add this to the index! :mrgreen:

EDIT: What the...I'm having technical difficulties. Every time I try to copy/paste ED's PM to me in the guide, Firefox freezes on the spot...it wasn't even that big! I've got no clue what's wrong with the bloody thing! Even when I try to do it in small bits it still freezes up! :shock:

Meph, I'm going to forward ED's PM to you. Can you please edit that into the main post?

EDIT: Wait, we don't have the forward PM system here, but never mind. ED put a special character in there, that's what caused it to crash. I'll have to change that.
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by Meph »

Oh. Never mind, then. ;)
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by Mimi »

Nice guide. It does expose more or less the varieties of arguments the defense/prosecution can make.
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by AP-Master »

I have a question on the penalty sistem. We have two possible reactions, Object or Let it slide. It's easy to understand that the judge would put a penalty for a bad :objection: . But isn't there someway to put a penalty if you Let it slide? I mean, you can't really say something like "Judge: I'll have to penalize you for letting this information go out.". I wanted to try and put a penalty on the slide part because otherwise it would be too easy, players would just put Let it slide all the time, so they never get a penalty. If a penalty could be possible for both answers, then a 50-50 possibility to get wrong would happen, which would make counter- Cross examinations really tricky and difficult. What do you think?
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SwagmaWampyr
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by SwagmaWampyr »

This is covered in most games that use the CCE system, actually: I just didn't mention it in the guide. I should probably do that for clarification, I guess.
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by Blackrune »

There are multiple ways to explain this.
Either the judge is just blaming the waste of time on you for some reason(easy way) or the attorney is actually able to make an argument damaging your case/cornering the witness which you could have prevented. (makes sense, but more difficult to always apply)
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by E.D.Revolution »

The thing you want to avoid with having both answers wrong is that the player might end up with a VERY PREMATURE game over, which is NEVER fun. It would come off a very unfair.

Rather, you should stick to the standard 50-50 approach. The difficulty comes with the way you word the question. Does that one question violate rules? Does that one question make it bad for your client? If I object, would it be the wrong choice? If I let it slide, will that be a missed opportunity that can be costly (represented by a custom game over or penalty). There are games where sliding is often the wrong choice. Again, in order to pull this off well, you have to think it over at least 5 times so that it's (1) challenging but (2) fair. You have many variables affecting the difficulty: the story, the way law works, the testimony, the question, and most importantly, the judge.

So basically, the difficulty in pulling a CCE well is how you word the questions the other side will ask.

I can let you in on how a CCE is done well if you PM me. ;)
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Re: Guide: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to

Post by Bad Player »

It also doesn't have to be a penalty. If the defense attorney does make a good point/argument (like Blackrune said), you can just have the prosecutor go, "That wasn't good for my case...!" and decrease the lifebar. Players will understand ;)
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Re: Counter-Cross Examinations: What they are/How to use

Post by CardiaX »

Awesome guide.
Spoiler : :
If you need to know what to do from the player's perspective, play Blackrune's second trial of the Judgment Seekers series. His Honor should explain it eventually. Just don't use the walkthrough. You shall be forever shamed if you do...
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