DWaM wrote:@Red Right:
Thank you very much for the kind words. (Don't worry, everyone used the walkthrough at one point. Whether they wanted to or not.)
@jayvdale:
Erm... I...
Thank you? I think? I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you tried saying there.
[T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Spoiler : :
Last edited by jayvdale on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
- DWaM
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Might want to put that in spoilers.
Also,
Also,
Spoiler : :
Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
The storyline+music of this game are more than worthy of the Phoenix Wright game serie's name. Hats down for you, and you have my most sincere thanks for that gaming experience you offered me. I had a wonderful time following that story.
However, the game itself is very difficult, and I found it most impossible to finish on my own deduction skills with the lack of in game clues I was pointed out through the evidences' list (no pointers to Eisenhower testimonies, etc). Sadly, I had to rely on testing-all-the-combinations trick in certain situations to finish the game.
A tiny little disappointment :
I have a question that doesn't seem to be answered at the end :
However, the game itself is very difficult, and I found it most impossible to finish on my own deduction skills with the lack of in game clues I was pointed out through the evidences' list (no pointers to Eisenhower testimonies, etc). Sadly, I had to rely on testing-all-the-combinations trick in certain situations to finish the game.
A tiny little disappointment :
Spoiler : :
Spoiler : :
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Thank you very much for the praise! The difficulty was always intended, I assure you (even though I do admit some parts were over-the-top).
Spoiler : Disappointment :
Spoiler : Your question :
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
You haven't added in the alternate end I suggested? You have disappointed me, as usual, DWaM.DWaM wrote:Spoiler : Disappointment :
Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Thanks for the answer. Well, it kind of annoys me to have to replay the part 3 to understand that missing part, so can you tell me what Masterson did say about this matter and/or when in part 3? I remembered he said he had his suspicions, but I don't remember seeing anything about it.DWaM wrote:Thank you very much for the praise! The difficulty was always intended, I assure you (even though I do admit some parts were over-the-top).
Spoiler : Disappointment :Spoiler : Your question :
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
It's really not something to be too worried about. As I said - it never specifically states the specific course of action taken, just the implication of what happened (and it can be interpreted in different ways - perhaps this person didn't actually need to do anything for this particular event to happen, etc., etc.). As to where it is... Kind of in plain sight, again.
Spoiler : Location :
Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
A bit of a critique, now that I've finished the case...
EDIT: I forgot to mention the music choices were quite good. Particularly the one from Sherlock Holmes.
Spoiler : My Thoughts :
Last edited by TheDoctor on Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Could you provide links as well?DWaM wrote:*grumble* *grumble* Making me go load an old trial... *grumble*
Alright, he's the custom music list:
Spoiler : :
Also, that trial name... looks familiar
(I know that this fangame was made before DD)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
TheDoctor wrote:A bit of a critique, now that I've finished the case...
EDIT: I forgot to mention the music choices were quite good. Particularly the one from Sherlock Holmes.Spoiler : My Thoughts :
I... Ill see if I could post it someday (although, I used the titles of the YT vids I ripped most of the tracks from, so a YT search could do just as well...)Sligneris wrote:Could you provide links as well?
Also, that trial name... looks familiar
(I know that this fangame was made before DD)
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
DWaM,
All I've gotta say that this is one best cases I've ever played! Not that I've played many.
Well, the difficulty os astounding but for me it adds to the experience.
Oh I've used the walkthrough for the whole case *shot*
All I've gotta say that this is one best cases I've ever played! Not that I've played many.
Well, the difficulty os astounding but for me it adds to the experience.
Oh I've used the walkthrough for the whole case *shot*
I have gone over to the dark side.
"This person has recently got a scary change of his personality"
- Darksyde -
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Thank you very much!
And don't worry, nobody can exactly blame you for using the walkthrough for what's arguably unfair difficulty.
And don't worry, nobody can exactly blame you for using the walkthrough for what's arguably unfair difficulty.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
Time to see what you guys have been up to while I've been gone.
So this was a contest winner. I'm playing it now, and will give my analysis once I'm done.
So this was a contest winner. I'm playing it now, and will give my analysis once I'm done.
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
I don't mean to go off-topic here so I'll just keep it brief:
Since you're back, mAc-baby, how about dat MACFIA?
Since you're back, mAc-baby, how about dat MACFIA?
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Re: [T][CE] Turnabout Tomorrow ★
lol, you remember. I was fiddling with it the other day. As in today. I had the entire thing planned out already, but then I ended up focusing on other things. Motivation is the main problem nowadays.
Now, onto the main topic.
So, as I comment: Unlimited Review Works
"Why the confused look, DWaM? Is it not normal for there to be a supervisor?"
It's been a while since I've touched any trials, and I think this is the first DWaM trial I've played. Not sure what other trials you made, DWaM, but in this one I saw definite good stuff, and also room for improvement. Keep in mind while reading this that I enjoyed the trial; even though I will point out flaws, the overall picture is good.
Speaking if pictures: I lightly skimmed the thread, and I noticed some controversy over using existing sprites for OCs. I for one have no problem at all with that, and can easily put my imagination into whatever new character there is. Of course, it's on the writer to make sure that they present more than just the same exact character with a different name. The character sprites themselves carry certain characterizations and convey certain personality traits, so you can't just pick any old set of sprites.
There are generally two ways to go about handling this: either pick character sprites that match up with the kind of character you want, or deliberately choose sprites that are the opposite. If you do the former, you'll have to write well to differentiate the character from their AA self. If you do the latter, you run the risk of having the character just not fit (imagine someone super perky and hyper with Vera's sprite set). In either case, both are valid, it just depends on the execution.
For this trial, overall I found it had a good story, but it stumbled over the implementation. Most of the problems relate to how the testimonies were handled and story progressed.
Things I Liked:
Anyway, I think that covers everything. I had fun playing, and I could tell you put in a lot of effort. So good work, and I look forward to seeing you produce more.
Now, onto the main topic.
So, as I comment: Unlimited Review Works
"Why the confused look, DWaM? Is it not normal for there to be a supervisor?"
It's been a while since I've touched any trials, and I think this is the first DWaM trial I've played. Not sure what other trials you made, DWaM, but in this one I saw definite good stuff, and also room for improvement. Keep in mind while reading this that I enjoyed the trial; even though I will point out flaws, the overall picture is good.
Speaking if pictures: I lightly skimmed the thread, and I noticed some controversy over using existing sprites for OCs. I for one have no problem at all with that, and can easily put my imagination into whatever new character there is. Of course, it's on the writer to make sure that they present more than just the same exact character with a different name. The character sprites themselves carry certain characterizations and convey certain personality traits, so you can't just pick any old set of sprites.
There are generally two ways to go about handling this: either pick character sprites that match up with the kind of character you want, or deliberately choose sprites that are the opposite. If you do the former, you'll have to write well to differentiate the character from their AA self. If you do the latter, you run the risk of having the character just not fit (imagine someone super perky and hyper with Vera's sprite set). In either case, both are valid, it just depends on the execution.
For this trial, overall I found it had a good story, but it stumbled over the implementation. Most of the problems relate to how the testimonies were handled and story progressed.
Things I Liked:
- Let's start with the characters. I thought you did a great job with Yalt and Cross. Both of them came off differently from Trucy and Phoenix, although I liked Yalt more.
- When I first saw Masterson, I was wondering how you'd be able to do anything with that single De Killer sprite. But in the end he came off well.
- The music was good old Umineko among other things. Good, although it's been used so much now I instantly was reminded of other trials.
- I liked the way you weaved the characters relationships and past through the case. Normally that is done over the span of a game, but you managed to fit it into one case.
- I have to give you credit for trying out the serious Judge, although I think ultimately I like our traditional goofy Judge more.
- I freaking loved the cameo of a certain character. It felt like I was playing the AA games. He acted exactly how I thought he would act. I always like it when people do that and pull it off; what's more, the era this places the case in is my favorite. If I ever make another case I will make a cameo with his villainous counterpart.
- The twists in the story, especially at the end, are what makes this case.
- I liked the Sherlock / Death Note themes although it just made me hungrier to see more details.
- Almost forgot! The whole presence of the villain / chess theme was also ominous and great.
- I mentioned the problems with implementation. By far the most obvious thing was the testimonies. They were way too long and convoluted. Each testimony I saw could have probably been broken up into many smaller testimonies. When you end up having them huge like this you have so many contradictions and things going on at once that it kind of hurts the direction of the case.
Look at how the official AA games do it: they never have a testimony going in 50 different directions. It always starts with one point, then you just keep drilling down until you end up in a completely new place. Writing it that way so it all fits is hard, but much more coherent. That way you feel like you're making progress, rather than just throwing whatever at the wall and seeing what sticks. - On the same point, the relation between the evidence presented and contradiction was really loose. I bet almost everybody had to look at the walkthrough. When that happens it's a sign telling you that the testimony and contradiction are too unclear. Stuff that could have helped here would also have been things like maps, since we have so many different situations balancing against each other that it's hard to keep track of who was where and when. And it's also hard to know what exactly each piece of evidence is supposed to represent since it could refer to a vague line somebody said 4 testimonies ago, which you have no way of knowing. Basically it comes down to needing to make evidence that contains these facts and states them clearly so they will not be lost in the shuffle. This is nothing new for trial authors and happens to pretty much everyone.
- Oh, also: Super Objections. They have the same exact problem. They were novel the first time but it's just played out now. Every time I see a Super Objection coming up I groan. Literally impossible to ever know what to present.
- Going back to story, the story itself was good, but the way it progressed was sometimes kind of meandering. This is mainly because the testimonies had so much going on in them, so you'd present one thing and then Cross would start going on about 50 different contradictions and factors in the case.
It ended up giving me the feeling that I was just pushing a "solve testimony" button and watching a movie unrelated to the contradiction unfold rather than having them tightly linked together, if that makes sense. Almost like Cross was just making stuff up and seeing if they could refute it rather than following a chain of deductions that necessarily point to one conclusion. Mainly because he makes lots of leaps and such that aren't covered in a step by step presenting fashion, so you feel like a spectator. Basically, if any case needs Thought Route, it's this one. - Some of the dialogue kept going on just way too long. Especially those Cross internal monologues. It got to the point where I forgot what they were even discussing a few times. On the one hand, I could see that you were trying to maybe use that as a way to give him a character quirk, but it can also backfire just like people like with Oldbag and Larry. You could state the same things much more succinctly across the board.
- Also, I wish some of the relationships got fleshed out more. We see some flashbacks, and they end up critically important to the case, so having some of those gaps filled like how a character went from point A to point B in their outlook would have helped.
Spoiler : TWIST :